Hampshire civic chief confirms wind farm ban

Hampshire civic chief confirms wind farm ban

Hampshire civic chief confirms wind farm ban

First published in News Hampshire Chronicle: Photograph of the Author by

COUNTY chiefs have confirmed a blanket ban on wind farms on council land in Hampshire.

Conservative leader Ken Thornber announced the controversial decision at a meeting of the full council last week.

Mr Thornber said wind farms took up “enormous tracts of land” and the council would develop an energy policy that looked at alternatives.

The decision has been welcomed by countryside campaigners but green groups have condemned the policy as “very short-sighted.”

It comes after a council report last October said that while the benefits of providing renewable energy were recognised, they had an adverse impact on the landscape.

Chris Gilham, of Winchester Friends of the Earth, said: “Wind energy can make a significant contribution to power generation. At the moment there are few alternatives.”

Mr Gilham said WinACC (Winchester Action on Climate Change) calculated energy produced by five or six wind farms was equivalent to solar panels on 200,000 homes – and there were only about 40,000 dwellings in Winchester district.

He said: “This is very short-sighted. If we don’t have wind farms we have to do something else of that sort of size or reduce energy consumption by 30 per cent, for example remove 60,000 vehicles from the roads.

“These are unavoidable pieces of arithmetic if we are serious about meeting climate change commitments.

“The trouble is local authorities are getting the message from Government that climate change doesn’t matter.”

Meanwhile Douglas Patterson, chairman of Keep Hampshire Green which is campaigning against a wind farm at Bullington Cross, north of Winchester, welcomed the move.

He said: “We welcome the signal. But what we would really like is for Hampshire to go a step further and follow Lincolnshire’s lead and recommend there should be 2km between large turbines and inhabited locations or settlements.”

Mr Patterson said the proposed turbines at Bullington Cross turbines would be only 800 metres from the nearest homes.

Hampshire’s new policy would only stop wind farms being developed on country parks and other county-owned land.

Planning applications for wind farm developments elsewhere are decided by district councils.

Comments (8)

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10:43pm Tue 11 Dec 12

800Jimbo says...

"Mr Thornber said wind farms took up “enormous tracts of land” and the council would develop an energy policy that looked at alternatives."
When though? When is the council going to develop this policy and why the hell haven't they already being doing so??? Or are they already decided on fracking which is rather conspicuously NOT banned?
"Mr Thornber said wind farms took up “enormous tracts of land” and the council would develop an energy policy that looked at alternatives." When though? When is the council going to develop this policy and why the hell haven't they already being doing so??? Or are they already decided on fracking which is rather conspicuously NOT banned? 800Jimbo
  • Score: 0

9:35am Wed 12 Dec 12

save energy says...

"Friends of the Earth, said: “Wind energy can make a significant contribution to power generation."


Well, NOT According to Department of Energy & Climate Change ( DECC ) & Grid figs –
(see Digest of United Kingdom Energy Statistics ( DUKES)
http://tinyurl.com/n
4k7n8 )

See Pages 121, 140, 144, 160, 186

Last year- 2011, wind generated only 15,498 GWh
Just 4.14 % of total annual electrical demand.

On-shore wind turbines are inefficient and only make a negligible contribution to our energy needs, but at a cost of £ billions on our bills (going to foreign investors).

The very fact they need a synchronized running reserve (running fossil fuel plants inefficiently so they produce CO2 but little electricity ) makes a nonsense of any carbon savings made from wind.

As I write this, the UKs entire 4,136 wind turbine fleet is producing- 0.4 GW
just … 0.8 % of demand !!!

If you want to see whats really happening & where your power is coming from in real time, see - http://tinyurl.com/6
ja8btf


The 'windturbine/cash generators' are no more than a brazen 'perpetual subsidies' swindle, costing us £billions for little advantage.

It's the wrong technology for the problem …because it was chosen by uninformed politicians, many of which are involved in the scam
"Friends of the Earth, said: “Wind energy can make a significant contribution to power generation." Well, NOT According to Department of Energy & Climate Change ( DECC ) & Grid figs – (see Digest of United Kingdom Energy Statistics ( DUKES) http://tinyurl.com/n 4k7n8 ) See Pages 121, 140, 144, 160, 186 Last year- 2011, wind generated only 15,498 GWh Just 4.14 % of total annual electrical demand. On-shore wind turbines are inefficient and only make a negligible contribution to our energy needs, but at a cost of £ billions on our bills (going to foreign investors). The very fact they need a synchronized running reserve (running fossil fuel plants inefficiently so they produce CO2 but little electricity ) makes a nonsense of any carbon savings made from wind. As I write this, the UKs entire 4,136 wind turbine fleet is producing- 0.4 GW just … 0.8 % of demand !!! If you want to see whats really happening & where your power is coming from in real time, see - http://tinyurl.com/6 ja8btf The 'windturbine/cash generators' are no more than a brazen 'perpetual subsidies' swindle, costing us £billions for little advantage. It's the wrong technology for the problem …because it was chosen by uninformed politicians, many of which are involved in the scam save energy
  • Score: 0

2:42pm Wed 12 Dec 12

macbeth101 says...

Interesting comments from 'save energy', I like the link showing where our electricity is currently coming from.

However, I don't understand his conclusion that wind energy is no good because it generates too little in the UK at the moment - surely this simply means that we need more wind farms. Portugal has managed to acheive over 50% of its electricity production from renewables, the biggest contributor of which is from wind. They also cleverly combine wind and hydro power by using surplus wind energy to pump water uphill, from where it can later be released to produce hyrdoelectric power. There have even been moments when portugal has generated 100% of its electricity from renewables.

Denmark is another country to have embraced wind power, and they have a surplus of electricty at night that they sell to Germany!

Britain is much windier than both Portugal and Denmark, for us not harness this resource is just plain dum.

Here are some links on Portugal:

http://pelanatureza.
pt/ficheiros/estatis
ticas-da-energias-re
novaveis.pdf

http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/science-enviro
nment-18538813

http://www.guardian.
co.uk/commentisfree/
2010/sep/19/portugal
-renewable-energy
Interesting comments from 'save energy', I like the link showing where our electricity is currently coming from. However, I don't understand his conclusion that wind energy is no good because it generates too little in the UK at the moment - surely this simply means that we need more wind farms. Portugal has managed to acheive over 50% of its electricity production from renewables, the biggest contributor of which is from wind. They also cleverly combine wind and hydro power by using surplus wind energy to pump water uphill, from where it can later be released to produce hyrdoelectric power. There have even been moments when portugal has generated 100% of its electricity from renewables. Denmark is another country to have embraced wind power, and they have a surplus of electricty at night that they sell to Germany! Britain is much windier than both Portugal and Denmark, for us not harness this resource is just plain dum. Here are some links on Portugal: http://pelanatureza. pt/ficheiros/estatis ticas-da-energias-re novaveis.pdf http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/science-enviro nment-18538813 http://www.guardian. co.uk/commentisfree/ 2010/sep/19/portugal -renewable-energy macbeth101
  • Score: 0

4:46pm Wed 12 Dec 12

griffon says...

The council's ban is pure gesture politics and I expect to see the ban printed in every Tory election leaflet in May. In reality there is nothing to ban as the county has legal control over its own land like any other landowner. There are also various planning restrictions. The real damage is the message they are sending out about renewable energy. The council is run by very old people who don't give a **** what happens in the next 30 years-they won't be around. Hampshire is rapildly becoming the ungreenest local government of them all
The council's ban is pure gesture politics and I expect to see the ban printed in every Tory election leaflet in May. In reality there is nothing to ban as the county has legal control over its own land like any other landowner. There are also various planning restrictions. The real damage is the message they are sending out about renewable energy. The council is run by very old people who don't give a **** what happens in the next 30 years-they won't be around. Hampshire is rapildly becoming the ungreenest local government of them all griffon
  • Score: 0

12:23am Thu 13 Dec 12

save energy says...

macbeth101 says..
“There have even been moments when portugal has generated 100% of its electricity from renewables”

Reference please;

I cannot find any time in last 5 yrs, when this has happened or when Portugal’s gas & coal stations have all been off line !!
Link to see Portugal’s real time grid figs - http://www.centrodei
nformacao.ren.pt/EN/
InformacaoExploracao
/Pages/EstatisticaDi
ariaDiagrama.aspx

You also say – re Portugal
“….the biggest contributor of which is from wind”

actually its Hydro !!
From the link you posted http://pelanatureza.
pt/ficheiros/estatis
ticas-da-energias-re
novaveis.pdf

If you look at table B1 on Pg 6, you will see the breakdown of demand & production from 2003-2011.
The Graph & table B2 B3 on Pg 7, shows % of demand.

Hydro= 27%

Wind = 16%

Biomass = 5%
Solar = 0.4%

They also import 5% from Spain

You say - “Denmark is another country to have embraced wind power”
Indeed they have - 22% Danish electricity is from wind (but often when they can’t use it)
Have a look at this link - http://www.emd.dk/el
/ Danish electricity grid figs.
A random example –
Go to Nov 29 (use the slide button), wind exceeds demand for 6 hrs so has to be dumped ( exported to Norway) look at price drop !!
Now move to Nov 30, wind has dropped ….see the price hike!!! Its financial madness.

Denmark has the highest electric prices in Europe
Other countries “to have embraced wind power” are Spain, Germany, Belgium, Holland, coincidentally they all have high electric prices!!! (See euro stats.)


Because the intermittency of wind brings a huge financial penalty Denmark, Germany, Belgium, Holland, have all cut back on wind installations & are now building gas & coal stations (worryingly Germany is going for brown coal ).
macbeth101 says.. “There have even been moments when portugal has generated 100% of its electricity from renewables” Reference please; I cannot find any time in last 5 yrs, when this has happened or when Portugal’s gas & coal stations have all been off line !! Link to see Portugal’s real time grid figs - http://www.centrodei nformacao.ren.pt/EN/ InformacaoExploracao /Pages/EstatisticaDi ariaDiagrama.aspx You also say – re Portugal “….the biggest contributor of which is from wind” actually its Hydro !! From the link you posted http://pelanatureza. pt/ficheiros/estatis ticas-da-energias-re novaveis.pdf If you look at table B1 on Pg 6, you will see the breakdown of demand & production from 2003-2011. The Graph & table B2 B3 on Pg 7, shows % of demand. Hydro= 27% Wind = 16% Biomass = 5% Solar = 0.4% They also import 5% from Spain You say - “Denmark is another country to have embraced wind power” Indeed they have - 22% Danish electricity is from wind (but often when they can’t use it) Have a look at this link - http://www.emd.dk/el / Danish electricity grid figs. A random example – Go to Nov 29 (use the slide button), wind exceeds demand for 6 hrs so has to be dumped ( exported to Norway) look at price drop !! Now move to Nov 30, wind has dropped ….see the price hike!!! Its financial madness. Denmark has the highest electric prices in Europe Other countries “to have embraced wind power” are Spain, Germany, Belgium, Holland, coincidentally they all have high electric prices!!! (See euro stats.) Because the intermittency of wind brings a huge financial penalty Denmark, Germany, Belgium, Holland, have all cut back on wind installations & are now building gas & coal stations (worryingly Germany is going for brown coal ). save energy
  • Score: 0

11:36am Thu 13 Dec 12

macbeth101 says...

Again, from the same information we're drawing different conclusions:

"22% Danish electricity is from wind" - I think that's excellent, 22% of electricity that requires no burning of fossil fuels, nor purchase of any fuel at all.

You say the surplus is "dumped", well selling it to Norway is not what I'd define as dumping it.

Incidentally, a lot of hydro power generated by Portugal is from water pumped uphill by wind power when there is a surplus. Also here's the link about portugal on one occassion getting 100% of its electricity from renewables: http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/science-enviro
nment-18538813

In terms of the intermittancy of wind power, it's just a question of having a national grid and end users setup to to store surplus electricity for use when there is a deficit. Economy 7 and night storage heaters for example could become cheaper than gas central heating, we just need a 'smart' national grid. I can forsee houses in the future being able to automatically switch between gas and electric heating according to daily price fluctuations.

You mention electricity prices, and maybe you're right that wind power is more expensive at the moment, but wind power also means far less CO2 emissions, a price well worth paying, as the costs of dealing with climate change will be far higher. Of course there's not much we can do about China and India, but better if we do something and lead by example.
Again, from the same information we're drawing different conclusions: "22% Danish electricity is from wind" - I think that's excellent, 22% of electricity that requires no burning of fossil fuels, nor purchase of any fuel at all. You say the surplus is "dumped", well selling it to Norway is not what I'd define as dumping it. Incidentally, a lot of hydro power generated by Portugal is from water pumped uphill by wind power when there is a surplus. Also here's the link about portugal on one occassion getting 100% of its electricity from renewables: http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/science-enviro nment-18538813 In terms of the intermittancy of wind power, it's just a question of having a national grid and end users setup to to store surplus electricity for use when there is a deficit. Economy 7 and night storage heaters for example could become cheaper than gas central heating, we just need a 'smart' national grid. I can forsee houses in the future being able to automatically switch between gas and electric heating according to daily price fluctuations. You mention electricity prices, and maybe you're right that wind power is more expensive at the moment, but wind power also means far less CO2 emissions, a price well worth paying, as the costs of dealing with climate change will be far higher. Of course there's not much we can do about China and India, but better if we do something and lead by example. macbeth101
  • Score: 0

1:40pm Thu 13 Dec 12

griffon says...

Can we expect a similar pronouncment
from Mr Thornber on fracking or is that the Tories answer to windfarms?
Can we expect a similar pronouncment from Mr Thornber on fracking or is that the Tories answer to windfarms? griffon
  • Score: 0

11:39am Fri 14 Dec 12

save energy says...

Hi macbeth
you say
("22% Danish electricity is from wind" - I think that's excellent, 22% of electricity that requires no burning of fossil fuels, nor purchase of any fuel at all.)

Fuel IS used,… see my first post -
“The very fact they need a synchronized running reserve (running fossil fuel plants inefficiently so they produce CO2 but little electricity ) makes a nonsense of any carbon savings made from wind.”


(You say the surplus is "dumped", well selling it to Norway is not what I'd define as dumping it.)

Selling it cheap, then a few hrs later- buying it back at premium rate is….MAD

( You mention electricity prices, and maybe you're right that wind power is more expensive at the moment )

Electricity generation costs: -

£50/MWh current price for thermal in UK.
£110-£120/MWh for estimated nuclear guarantee price that will cover construction costs.
£100/MWh for onshore Wind.
£170/MWh for offshore Wind
from "Process Engineering Magazine" Nov 2012


I followed your link re- Portugal on one occasion getting 100% of its electricity from renewables, I found the date & made a few phone calls, here’s what happened;-

On 24/12/2011 between 06.15 & 07.30am there was an exceptionally
low demand = 4,500MW (partly caused by storm damage to grid ) coinciding with high wind & thermal biomass output = 3,600MW. At the time they were generating 500MW from coal, 120MW from run of river & Importing 600MW from Spain.
So even if we say the import from Spain was 100% renewable that’s 96% not 100%. (which explains why I couldn’t find the occasion on my first trawl)
The excess was dumped to pumped storage.
It seems the BBC reporter ether didn’t understand the data or just took journalistic license !!

But back to Portuguese power stats- per annum
wind supplies 16%,
all renewables 48%

Portugal has a greater proportion of pump storage than UK which evens out the fluctuations.
Hi macbeth you say ("22% Danish electricity is from wind" - I think that's excellent, 22% of electricity that requires no burning of fossil fuels, nor purchase of any fuel at all.) Fuel IS used,… see my first post - “The very fact they need a synchronized running reserve (running fossil fuel plants inefficiently so they produce CO2 but little electricity ) makes a nonsense of any carbon savings made from wind.” (You say the surplus is "dumped", well selling it to Norway is not what I'd define as dumping it.) Selling it cheap, then a few hrs later- buying it back at premium rate is….MAD ( You mention electricity prices, and maybe you're right that wind power is more expensive at the moment ) Electricity generation costs: - £50/MWh current price for thermal in UK. £110-£120/MWh for estimated nuclear guarantee price that will cover construction costs. £100/MWh for onshore Wind. £170/MWh for offshore Wind from "Process Engineering Magazine" Nov 2012 I followed your link re- Portugal on one occasion getting 100% of its electricity from renewables, I found the date & made a few phone calls, here’s what happened;- On 24/12/2011 between 06.15 & 07.30am there was an exceptionally low demand = 4,500MW (partly caused by storm damage to grid ) coinciding with high wind & thermal biomass output = 3,600MW. At the time they were generating 500MW from coal, 120MW from run of river & Importing 600MW from Spain. So even if we say the import from Spain was 100% renewable that’s 96% not 100%. (which explains why I couldn’t find the occasion on my first trawl) The excess was dumped to pumped storage. It seems the BBC reporter ether didn’t understand the data or just took journalistic license !! But back to Portuguese power stats- per annum wind supplies 16%, all renewables 48% Portugal has a greater proportion of pump storage than UK which evens out the fluctuations. save energy
  • Score: 0

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