Over 5,000 jobs to go in public sector (From Hampshire Chronicle)
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Centre for Cities report paints grim outlook for Southampton’s employment prospects
4:34pm Monday 23rd January 2012 in Education
AROUND 5,500 more public sector jobs will be lost in Southampton in the next few years, according to a new report published today.
The Centre for Cities study casts doubt on the ability of the private sector to compensate for cuts to council, health and police budgets.
The think tank expects a 5,500 drop in public sector employment by 2016 in Southampton and Eastleigh, 3.1 per cent of the total workforce.
A further 8,800 public sector job losses are expected in Fareham, Gosport, Havant, and Portsmouth.
About 900 private sector jobs were created in the Southampton area in 2010.
Just 200 were created in the Portsmouth area over the same period.
The massive public sector jobs losses are predicted as the full force of the biggest spending cuts in decades are felt at councils, schools, hospitals and emergency services.
The Government insists they are needed to shrink the country’s budget deficit.
At the start of the recession in 2008, Southampton had around 35,600 public sector workers, making up one third of its workforce, according to latest Office of National Statistics figures. Eastleigh had 10,800 public sector workers, 18 per cent of its workforce.
However, the numbers have tumbled in recent years as the spending squeeze forces the public sector to shed jobs.
In the past three years Southampton City Council has axed more than 450 jobs to balance its budget, with 217 more posts set to go over the next year. Dozens of posts have gone at Eastleigh Borough Council in recent years.
Sixteen months ago Hampshire Constabulary revealed plans to axe up to 1,400 posts over four years – a fifth of its workforce. It has been shedding 160 jobs over the past year.
Cash-strapped bosses at Southampton University Hospitals NHS Trust also revealed a four-year plan to axe up to 1,400 jobs in city hospitals two years ago to slash its 8,500 workforce by more than 15 per cent. It has cut around 500 posts since then.
The University of Southampton two years ago said it was having to cut 200 jobs from its 5,000 workforce to cope with funding cuts.
The Centre for Cities study is seen as an influential “health check” on the UK’s 64 major towns and cities.
It also reveals that average weekly wages in Southampton dropped by £27 last year, one of the sharpest falls in the country.
Southampton was ranked halfway down the table for the number of business start-ups, at 30.5 per 10,000 people, and patents registered in 2010, which was eight for every 10,000.
At 20,100, or 8.2 per cent, the proportion of people with no formal qualifications was among the lowest of the cities measured.
Despite pockets of high deprivation, the Southampton area has one of the lowest unemployment rates.
Recently Southampton was overlooked for the Government’s new core cities strategy, which will see new powers over spending and investment awarded to ten cities across England in an attempt to stimulate growth.
Alexandra Jones, chief executive of Centre for Cities, said: “Some cities are well-placed to kick-start economic growth. However, some cities have been hit particularly hard by recession and the gap between cities is widening.
“This makes it vital that Government policy is tailored to meet the needs of each city rather than one-size-fits-all.”
Additional reporting by Matt Smith
Southampton & Eastleigh
• PEOPLE
Total population in 2010: 362,100
Population change from 2009/10: (1.29%)
• Business
Business start-ups in 2010 (per 10,000 pop): 30.5
Business stock in 2010 (per 10,000 pop): 255
Patents in 2010 (per 100,000 pop): 8
GVA per person in 2009: £21,400
• SKILLS
High level qualifications in 2010: 73,900 (30%)
No formal qualifications in 2010: 20,100 (8.2%)
• JOBS
Employment 2010: 174,700 (71%)
Private to public sector ratio 2010: 2.54
Private sector jobs change from 2009/10: 900 (0.7%)
Public sector jobs change by end 2016: -5,500 -3.1%
• INDUSTRIAL
Manufacturing jobs in 2010: 11,300 (7%)
Knowledge intensive service jobs in 2010: 29,000 (17%)
Public sector jobs in 2010: 48,800 (29%)
• EARNINGS
Average weekly wages in 2011: £458
Change in real wages in 2010-11: £27 (-6.1%)
• UNEMPLOYMENT
JSA claimant count in Nov 2011: 7,300 (2.9%)
Youth claimant count in Nov 2011: 2,200 (3.4%)
Long term claimant count in Nov 2011: 900 (0.4%)
Claimant count change from Feb 2008: 3,170 (1.2%)
• WELFARE
Total welfare bill in 2009: £845m
Welfare bill per person in 2009: £2,363
Welfare cuts per person in by 2014-15: -£120
• HOUSING
Average house price in 2010: £196,900
Housing stock change, 2009-10: 970 (0.6%)
Affordability ratio: 8.14
• ENVIRONMENT
CO2 emissions per person in 2009: 5.3 tons
How our neighbours compare
An overview of the conurbations nearest Southampton that provide a comparison of how Southampton and Eastleigh are performing.
BOURNEMOUTH
Total population in 2010: 357,600
Employment in 2010: 157,400 (73%)
Public sector jobs in 2010: 49,500 (29%)
Public sector jobs change by end 2016: -4,700 (-2.6%)
JSA claimant count in Nov 2011: 6,000 (2.7%)
Youth claimant count in Nov 2011: 1,600 (3.2%)
BRIGHTON & HOVE
Total population in 2010: 320,400
Employment in 2010: 153,500 (71%)
Public sector jobs in 2010: 43,000 (32%)
Public sector jobs changes by end 2016: -4,000 (-2.8%)
JSA claimant count in Nov 2011: 7,500 (3.4%)
Youth claimant count in Nov 2011: 2,100 (4.2%)
PORTSMOUTH AREA
(Fareham, Gosport, Havant, Portsmouth)
Total population in 2010: 516,000
Employment in 2010: 240,300 (73%)
Public sector jobs in 2010: 65,300 (32%)
Public sector job change by end 2016: -8,800 (-4.1%)
JSA claimant count in Nov 2011: 10,300 (3%)
Youth claimant count in Nov 2011: 3,100 (3.9%)
Comments(53)
MrWoody83
says...
5:02pm Mon 23 Jan 12
Media doom & gloom scare mongering!
Maine Lobster
says...
5:07pm Mon 23 Jan 12
Condor Man wrote:The private sector has demonstrated over the last two years that it cannot deliver the jobs that the coalition's fantasy solution pinned its hopes on.
Listening to the radio this morning they were talking about Milton Keynes and it's place in the 'knowledge economy. Southampton isn't much further away from London than MK, has excellent road and rail links and yet it's too reliant on state sponsored work. With 2 universities we should be striving forward as a city, but are held back by a significantly under educated work force. The challenge is to replace these jobs within the private sector, any ideas?
People in the public sector are better off providing services to their community, much more likely to be needed in difficult times while paying taxes rather than being paid benefits.
Of course the Tory led Government only cares about protecting the interests of high finance and big business, so the rest of us can just flounder while the out of touch rich sit untouched trying to ride out the storm.
George4th
says...
5:15pm Mon 23 Jan 12
Condor Man wrote:Yes Condor man, Milton Keynes is the place to go to for a job. Simple - they created an environment to attract business. We had 30 years of a Labour council resulting in 30 years of neglect - no strategy, no investment, no future! If it wasn't for the University and the Hospital this City would be ghost City!
Listening to the radio this morning they were talking about Milton Keynes and it's place in the 'knowledge economy. Southampton isn't much further away from London than MK, has excellent road and rail links and yet it's too reliant on state sponsored work. With 2 universities we should be striving forward as a city, but are held back by a significantly under educated work force. The challenge is to replace these jobs within the private sector, any ideas?
peenut81
says...
6:27pm Mon 23 Jan 12
Thats right George, because private business and corporations have spent the last thirty years maximising profit from the UK and off-shoring it as compliant politicians have aided and abetted. Those publicly provided areas of social provision (essential to a modern society) are indeed our brightest achievements.
SOULJACKER
says...
6:39pm Mon 23 Jan 12
Oh Hell,
Does that mean that we will have to read all that junk about unions & council workers for another year or two.........
Yaaaawn, think I'm gonna give my pillow some head (-_-)zzzzzzz......
Does that mean that we will have to read all that junk about unions & council workers for another year or two.........
Yaaaawn, think I'm gonna give my pillow some head (-_-)zzzzzzz......
Paramjit Bahia
says...
6:41pm Mon 23 Jan 12
Why should poor public sector workers be made to pay the price for the greed based wrong decisions of super rich bosses and unfit for the purpose political class?
.
People responsible for creating economic crisis have not only been allowed to get away with their moral criminality many of them have even been given massive hand outs from the taxes paid by workers, whom now the thatcherite government is thinking of putting on the heap of unemployment
.
All these workers should unite and along with decent members of the community campaign to change this lousy right wing establishment.
.
People responsible for creating economic crisis have not only been allowed to get away with their moral criminality many of them have even been given massive hand outs from the taxes paid by workers, whom now the thatcherite government is thinking of putting on the heap of unemployment
.
All these workers should unite and along with decent members of the community campaign to change this lousy right wing establishment.
Condor Man
says...
6:43pm Mon 23 Jan 12
Maine Lobster wrote:There should have been less reliance in the past on public sector jobs. So little was done in developing the city to compete with places like Milton Keynes. More emphasis should have been placed on wealth creation when we were wasting money on folly's like Eastpoint.
Condor Man wrote:The private sector has demonstrated over the last two years that it cannot deliver the jobs that the coalition's fantasy solution pinned its hopes on.
Listening to the radio this morning they were talking about Milton Keynes and it's place in the 'knowledge economy. Southampton isn't much further away from London than MK, has excellent road and rail links and yet it's too reliant on state sponsored work. With 2 universities we should be striving forward as a city, but are held back by a significantly under educated work force. The challenge is to replace these jobs within the private sector, any ideas?
People in the public sector are better off providing services to their community, much more likely to be needed in difficult times while paying taxes rather than being paid benefits.
Of course the Tory led Government only cares about protecting the interests of high finance and big business, so the rest of us can just flounder while the out of touch rich sit untouched trying to ride out the storm.
George4th
says...
6:46pm Mon 23 Jan 12
peenut81 wrote:It is no co-incidence that the successful economies are those where the population works hard. The size of our welfare state tells us we do not work hard!!
Thats right George, because private business and corporations have spent the last thirty years maximising profit from the UK and off-shoring it as compliant politicians have aided and abetted. Those publicly provided areas of social provision (essential to a modern society) are indeed our brightest achievements.
>
We stopped doing that from the 60s onwards when the Left Wingers used the Unions as a platform for their misguided ideology! Result? You tell me!
>
George4th
says...
6:51pm Mon 23 Jan 12
Paramjit Bahia wrote:Oh come on! Labour fuelled jobs in the Public Sector and created 100,000s of non jobs! You only had to pick up the Guardian and look at the vacancies for the Public Sector - it became a competition for who could make up the longest and unexplainable job title!
Why should poor public sector workers be made to pay the price for the greed based wrong decisions of super rich bosses and unfit for the purpose political class?
.
People responsible for creating economic crisis have not only been allowed to get away with their moral criminality many of them have even been given massive hand outs from the taxes paid by workers, whom now the thatcherite government is thinking of putting on the heap of unemployment
.
All these workers should unite and along with decent members of the community campaign to change this lousy right wing establishment.
>
Any organisation can lose a minimum 10% and function 100% - the Public Sector can easily take the hit.
Danae
says...
6:58pm Mon 23 Jan 12
What Government budget deficit?
.
If corporate firms and wealthy individuals were made to pay their tax like everyone else we would have an extra £100 billion a year in the Exchequer.
.
That would cover the shortfall.
.
Why mess up the nation's economy, effective operation and safety just because big companies will not (so far) pay what they should?
.
We need Police and Teachers and Hospitals.
.
If corporate firms and wealthy individuals were made to pay their tax like everyone else we would have an extra £100 billion a year in the Exchequer.
.
That would cover the shortfall.
.
Why mess up the nation's economy, effective operation and safety just because big companies will not (so far) pay what they should?
.
We need Police and Teachers and Hospitals.
George4th
says...
7:22pm Mon 23 Jan 12
Danae wrote:Big companies and wealthy individuals are acting within the law which cannot be said for all the people who evade tax at every level of our society e.g. the black economy, VAT avoidance on cash in hand jobs, benefit fraud etc etc.
What Government budget deficit?
.
If corporate firms and wealthy individuals were made to pay their tax like everyone else we would have an extra £100 billion a year in the Exchequer.
.
That would cover the shortfall.
.
Why mess up the nation's economy, effective operation and safety just because big companies will not (so far) pay what they should?
.
We need Police and Teachers and Hospitals.
>
And keep in mind that all these companies and wealthy individuals can upsticks and operate in countries where the tax system is more favourable.
Lone Ranger.
says...
7:26pm Mon 23 Jan 12
George4th wrote:And i thought you said " I dont read newspapers"
Paramjit Bahia wrote:Oh come on! Labour fuelled jobs in the Public Sector and created 100,000s of non jobs! You only had to pick up the Guardian and look at the vacancies for the Public Sector - it became a competition for who could make up the longest and unexplainable job title!
Why should poor public sector workers be made to pay the price for the greed based wrong decisions of super rich bosses and unfit for the purpose political class?
.
People responsible for creating economic crisis have not only been allowed to get away with their moral criminality many of them have even been given massive hand outs from the taxes paid by workers, whom now the thatcherite government is thinking of putting on the heap of unemployment
.
All these workers should unite and along with decent members of the community campaign to change this lousy right wing establishment.
>
Any organisation can lose a minimum 10% and function 100% - the Public Sector can easily take the hit.
The Wickham Man
says...
7:43pm Mon 23 Jan 12
Paramjit Bahia wrote:I don't defend the big corporations or the inflated salaries they pay to their executives but as long as you perpetuate this stupid myth that everyone else is totally innocent of greed or profligate living you will get no sympathy or credibility. Just for your "interest" the banks made money by creating debt - and they created that debt by lending to people who in many cases had no collateral or insufficient collateral to pay it back. Stupid maybe, but in order for a bank to be £50bn in debt it has to have lent £50bn to somebody and not got it back! In this country today personal debt is far higher than it has ever been but according to you all those people with credit card debt whose solution was to take out another card and run it up to its limit are just poor innocent victims. Victims yes, but of their own greed and stupidity. Still, in your world Paramjit everyone can just blame it all on this top hat wearing super rich class who spend all their time laughing at the poor from their black limos while burning piles of money. Do you believe David Icke as well?
Why should poor public sector workers be made to pay the price for the greed based wrong decisions of super rich bosses and unfit for the purpose political class?
.
People responsible for creating economic crisis have not only been allowed to get away with their moral criminality many of them have even been given massive hand outs from the taxes paid by workers, whom now the thatcherite government is thinking of putting on the heap of unemployment
.
All these workers should unite and along with decent members of the community campaign to change this lousy right wing establishment.
georgetheseventh
says...
8:23pm Mon 23 Jan 12
George4th wrote:NO..you had years of 'accepting' easy public sector jobs from NEW Labour..but you also got plenty of government cash for infrastructure projects..rail..road and sea related ..all of which you have mismanaged and are now whingeing over.
Condor Man wrote:Yes Condor man, Milton Keynes is the place to go to for a job. Simple - they created an environment to attract business. We had 30 years of a Labour council resulting in 30 years of neglect - no strategy, no investment, no future! If it wasn't for the University and the Hospital this City would be ghost City!
Listening to the radio this morning they were talking about Milton Keynes and it's place in the 'knowledge economy. Southampton isn't much further away from London than MK, has excellent road and rail links and yet it's too reliant on state sponsored work. With 2 universities we should be striving forward as a city, but are held back by a significantly under educated work force. The challenge is to replace these jobs within the private sector, any ideas?
redsnapper
says...
11:43pm Mon 23 Jan 12
Paramjit Bahia wrote:Just what the hell do 46000 public workers do in Southampton and Eastleigh????
Why should poor public sector workers be made to pay the price for the greed based wrong decisions of super rich bosses and unfit for the purpose political class?
.
People responsible for creating economic crisis have not only been allowed to get away with their moral criminality many of them have even been given massive hand outs from the taxes paid by workers, whom now the thatcherite government is thinking of putting on the heap of unemployment
.
All these workers should unite and along with decent members of the community campaign to change this lousy right wing establishment.
BA is a global airline and runs it with only 10000 more. It loses money, its employees lose their jobs like any other private company.It provides a visible and valuable service.
Frankly I am seriously under impressed by almost every council I come acros, what do they do for us, not much I fear and they all seem to have huge numbers of jobsworths doing sweet FA.
Linesman
says...
9:01am Tue 24 Jan 12
George4th wrote:It was under a Labour government that the country got back on it's feet after WWII.
peenut81 wrote:It is no co-incidence that the successful economies are those where the population works hard. The size of our welfare state tells us we do not work hard!!
Thats right George, because private business and corporations have spent the last thirty years maximising profit from the UK and off-shoring it as compliant politicians have aided and abetted. Those publicly provided areas of social provision (essential to a modern society) are indeed our brightest achievements.
>
We stopped doing that from the 60s onwards when the Left Wingers used the Unions as a platform for their misguided ideology! Result? You tell me!
>
It was under a Labour government that North Sea Oil was discovered and brought ashore.
It was under a Labour government that the Hindhead Tunnel was given the go-ahead and completed.
It was under a Tory government that British Aerospace, Cable & Wireless, North Sea Oil, British Gas, British Airways, British Steel, Water Utilities, British Coal and British Rail were sold off, and what have we got to show for it?
Other than severe cuts in our armed forces - even at the time of the Falklands -
SWEET F A!
Shoong
says...
9:35am Tue 24 Jan 12
So we are ditching non-jobs created by the last Labour government.
Good news for Britain, good news for the Economy.
Good news for Britain, good news for the Economy.
Shoong
says...
9:36am Tue 24 Jan 12
Paramjit Bahia wrote:What kind of 'poor' are we on about here?
Why should poor public sector workers be made to pay the price for the greed based wrong decisions of super rich bosses and unfit for the purpose political class?
.
People responsible for creating economic crisis have not only been allowed to get away with their moral criminality many of them have even been given massive hand outs from the taxes paid by workers, whom now the thatcherite government is thinking of putting on the heap of unemployment
.
All these workers should unite and along with decent members of the community campaign to change this lousy right wing establishment.
Poor as in unable to provide food & shelter for the family or poor as in cannot afford Sky HD in 3D?
Taskforce 141
says...
10:14am Tue 24 Jan 12
Greed has ruined this country and is still continuing to do so, and whilst the majority of the nation are arguing amongst themselves, The politicians and bankers are still raking it in!
And remember this, the more people in poverty and out of work (which looks like the future of the country) also brings heightened crime rates, but again the super rich in country estates don't get to sample this in their everyday lives its left to the rest of us to hold up the country.
And remember this, the more people in poverty and out of work (which looks like the future of the country) also brings heightened crime rates, but again the super rich in country estates don't get to sample this in their everyday lives its left to the rest of us to hold up the country.
Shoong
says...
10:31am Tue 24 Jan 12
Taskforce 141 wrote:Absolutely.
Greed has ruined this country and is still continuing to do so, and whilst the majority of the nation are arguing amongst themselves, The politicians and bankers are still raking it in!
And remember this, the more people in poverty and out of work (which looks like the future of the country) also brings heightened crime rates, but again the super rich in country estates don't get to sample this in their everyday lives its left to the rest of us to hold up the country.
We should tolerate 'poor' people resorting to crime & b*ggering up other peoples lives.
'also brings heightened crime rates, but again the super rich in country estates don't get to sample this in their everyday lives its left to the rest of us to hold up the country.'
It's sad the things people will say when they are simply envious.
saintmicky
says...
10:37am Tue 24 Jan 12
The government can't get agreement to cap the level of benefits to £26000 p.a. (net), but making thousands of public sector workers redundant is going to save us money?
Have I missed something? Has average public sector pay increased so that this balances? Perhaps the country will be a better place to live without the work these people do and thousands more signing on!
Have I missed something? Has average public sector pay increased so that this balances? Perhaps the country will be a better place to live without the work these people do and thousands more signing on!
Linesman
says...
10:37am Tue 24 Jan 12
Shoong wrote:If that is the best 'intelligent question' that you can muster, I really don't know why you bother.
Paramjit Bahia wrote:What kind of 'poor' are we on about here?
Why should poor public sector workers be made to pay the price for the greed based wrong decisions of super rich bosses and unfit for the purpose political class?
.
People responsible for creating economic crisis have not only been allowed to get away with their moral criminality many of them have even been given massive hand outs from the taxes paid by workers, whom now the thatcherite government is thinking of putting on the heap of unemployment
.
All these workers should unite and along with decent members of the community campaign to change this lousy right wing establishment.
Poor as in unable to provide food & shelter for the family or poor as in cannot afford Sky HD in 3D?
southy
says...
11:19am Tue 24 Jan 12
Condor Man wrote:For your info Condor MK has more public services workers than Southampton and yet MK is a lot smaller.
Maine Lobster wrote:There should have been less reliance in the past on public sector jobs. So little was done in developing the city to compete with places like Milton Keynes. More emphasis should have been placed on wealth creation when we were wasting money on folly's like Eastpoint.
Condor Man wrote:The private sector has demonstrated over the last two years that it cannot deliver the jobs that the coalition's fantasy solution pinned its hopes on.
Listening to the radio this morning they were talking about Milton Keynes and it's place in the 'knowledge economy. Southampton isn't much further away from London than MK, has excellent road and rail links and yet it's too reliant on state sponsored work. With 2 universities we should be striving forward as a city, but are held back by a significantly under educated work force. The challenge is to replace these jobs within the private sector, any ideas?
People in the public sector are better off providing services to their community, much more likely to be needed in difficult times while paying taxes rather than being paid benefits.
Of course the Tory led Government only cares about protecting the interests of high finance and big business, so the rest of us can just flounder while the out of touch rich sit untouched trying to ride out the storm.
Southampton was an Industary City, Milton Keynes is a paper town. theres a big difference between the to, so if your a pen pusher then MK is your better bet.
southy
says...
11:21am Tue 24 Jan 12
George4th wrote:Thats why countrys that run on a part left base 50-50 are fairing better in the Economics down turn.
peenut81 wrote:It is no co-incidence that the successful economies are those where the population works hard. The size of our welfare state tells us we do not work hard!!
Thats right George, because private business and corporations have spent the last thirty years maximising profit from the UK and off-shoring it as compliant politicians have aided and abetted. Those publicly provided areas of social provision (essential to a modern society) are indeed our brightest achievements.
>
We stopped doing that from the 60s onwards when the Left Wingers used the Unions as a platform for their misguided ideology! Result? You tell me!
>
southy
says...
11:25am Tue 24 Jan 12
Shoong wrote:Bad news for economy, more people unble to spend in the economy forcing it to drop even more, and if more people can not spend in the local economy then the knock effect is a fall in the national economy and that effects the world economy, they are all connected.
So we are ditching non-jobs created by the last Labour government.
Good news for Britain, good news for the Economy.
The Wickham Man
says...
11:33am Tue 24 Jan 12
Linesman wrote:errr 1) how much Corporation Tax have those companies paid to the Exchequer since they were privatised? I think you will find it it runs into several billion. 2) How much would the GOvenment have paid in interest on the gilt market raising the capital to fund the infrastructure needed in areas such as the North Sea or rail infrastructure had those industries not been privateised? I think you will find it runs into tens of billions. Still, we got the Hindhead Tunnel. Break out the party poppers.......
George4th wrote:It was under a Labour government that the country got back on it's feet after WWII. It was under a Labour government that North Sea Oil was discovered and brought ashore. It was under a Labour government that the Hindhead Tunnel was given the go-ahead and completed. It was under a Tory government that British Aerospace, Cable & Wireless, North Sea Oil, British Gas, British Airways, British Steel, Water Utilities, British Coal and British Rail were sold off, and what have we got to show for it? Other than severe cuts in our armed forces - even at the time of the Falklands - SWEET F A!peenut81 wrote: Thats right George, because private business and corporations have spent the last thirty years maximising profit from the UK and off-shoring it as compliant politicians have aided and abetted. Those publicly provided areas of social provision (essential to a modern society) are indeed our brightest achievements.It is no co-incidence that the successful economies are those where the population works hard. The size of our welfare state tells us we do not work hard!! > We stopped doing that from the 60s onwards when the Left Wingers used the Unions as a platform for their misguided ideology! Result? You tell me! >
southy
says...
11:40am Tue 24 Jan 12
The Wickham Man wrote:What is paid in corporation tax amounts to just under 1/4 of what they could be earning for the state.
Linesman wrote:errr 1) how much Corporation Tax have those companies paid to the Exchequer since they were privatised? I think you will find it it runs into several billion. 2) How much would the GOvenment have paid in interest on the gilt market raising the capital to fund the infrastructure needed in areas such as the North Sea or rail infrastructure had those industries not been privateised? I think you will find it runs into tens of billions. Still, we got the Hindhead Tunnel. Break out the party poppers.......
George4th wrote:It was under a Labour government that the country got back on it's feet after WWII. It was under a Labour government that North Sea Oil was discovered and brought ashore. It was under a Labour government that the Hindhead Tunnel was given the go-ahead and completed. It was under a Tory government that British Aerospace, Cable & Wireless, North Sea Oil, British Gas, British Airways, British Steel, Water Utilities, British Coal and British Rail were sold off, and what have we got to show for it? Other than severe cuts in our armed forces - even at the time of the Falklands - SWEET F A!peenut81 wrote: Thats right George, because private business and corporations have spent the last thirty years maximising profit from the UK and off-shoring it as compliant politicians have aided and abetted. Those publicly provided areas of social provision (essential to a modern society) are indeed our brightest achievements.It is no co-incidence that the successful economies are those where the population works hard. The size of our welfare state tells us we do not work hard!! > We stopped doing that from the 60s onwards when the Left Wingers used the Unions as a platform for their misguided ideology! Result? You tell me! >
Torchie1
says...
11:43am Tue 24 Jan 12
Linesman wrote:I often wonder why you bother but your posts are a constant source of amusement. Perhaps you should approach the TV company that produces "Grumpy Old Men".
Shoong wrote:If that is the best 'intelligent question' that you can muster, I really don't know why you bother.
Paramjit Bahia wrote:What kind of 'poor' are we on about here?
Why should poor public sector workers be made to pay the price for the greed based wrong decisions of super rich bosses and unfit for the purpose political class?
.
People responsible for creating economic crisis have not only been allowed to get away with their moral criminality many of them have even been given massive hand outs from the taxes paid by workers, whom now the thatcherite government is thinking of putting on the heap of unemployment
.
All these workers should unite and along with decent members of the community campaign to change this lousy right wing establishment.
Poor as in unable to provide food & shelter for the family or poor as in cannot afford Sky HD in 3D?
southy
says...
11:45am Tue 24 Jan 12
southy wrote:Money was being spent when they was state owned just that when the torys got it ready to be sold they ran them down to make them look good ready for selling off, and even when they was sold how many years afterwards did these newly private company start to spend.
The Wickham Man wrote:What is paid in corporation tax amounts to just under 1/4 of what they could be earning for the state.
Linesman wrote:errr 1) how much Corporation Tax have those companies paid to the Exchequer since they were privatised? I think you will find it it runs into several billion. 2) How much would the GOvenment have paid in interest on the gilt market raising the capital to fund the infrastructure needed in areas such as the North Sea or rail infrastructure had those industries not been privateised? I think you will find it runs into tens of billions. Still, we got the Hindhead Tunnel. Break out the party poppers.......
George4th wrote:It was under a Labour government that the country got back on it's feet after WWII. It was under a Labour government that North Sea Oil was discovered and brought ashore. It was under a Labour government that the Hindhead Tunnel was given the go-ahead and completed. It was under a Tory government that British Aerospace, Cable & Wireless, North Sea Oil, British Gas, British Airways, British Steel, Water Utilities, British Coal and British Rail were sold off, and what have we got to show for it? Other than severe cuts in our armed forces - even at the time of the Falklands - SWEET F A!peenut81 wrote: Thats right George, because private business and corporations have spent the last thirty years maximising profit from the UK and off-shoring it as compliant politicians have aided and abetted. Those publicly provided areas of social provision (essential to a modern society) are indeed our brightest achievements.It is no co-incidence that the successful economies are those where the population works hard. The size of our welfare state tells us we do not work hard!! > We stopped doing that from the 60s onwards when the Left Wingers used the Unions as a platform for their misguided ideology! Result? You tell me! >
It was some time afterwards they had to make sure there newly share holders had made a big profit first.
southy
says...
11:50am Tue 24 Jan 12
Torchie1 wrote:He spot on Torchie, try getting to know people out here on the estates they dont have these things like these propagandist are trying to push forward things like Sky, plasma 50" tv, computors or the latest up to date mobile phone, to many are in debt and are only just keeping there head above water.
Linesman wrote:I often wonder why you bother but your posts are a constant source of amusement. Perhaps you should approach the TV company that produces "Grumpy Old Men".
Shoong wrote:If that is the best 'intelligent question' that you can muster, I really don't know why you bother.
Paramjit Bahia wrote:What kind of 'poor' are we on about here?
Why should poor public sector workers be made to pay the price for the greed based wrong decisions of super rich bosses and unfit for the purpose political class?
.
People responsible for creating economic crisis have not only been allowed to get away with their moral criminality many of them have even been given massive hand outs from the taxes paid by workers, whom now the thatcherite government is thinking of putting on the heap of unemployment
.
All these workers should unite and along with decent members of the community campaign to change this lousy right wing establishment.
Poor as in unable to provide food & shelter for the family or poor as in cannot afford Sky HD in 3D?
George4th
says...
11:55am Tue 24 Jan 12
southy wrote:The Unions drove our industry away with continually being on strike - Southampton was FAMOUS for it!
Condor Man wrote:For your info Condor MK has more public services workers than Southampton and yet MK is a lot smaller.
Maine Lobster wrote:There should have been less reliance in the past on public sector jobs. So little was done in developing the city to compete with places like Milton Keynes. More emphasis should have been placed on wealth creation when we were wasting money on folly's like Eastpoint.
Condor Man wrote:The private sector has demonstrated over the last two years that it cannot deliver the jobs that the coalition's fantasy solution pinned its hopes on.
Listening to the radio this morning they were talking about Milton Keynes and it's place in the 'knowledge economy. Southampton isn't much further away from London than MK, has excellent road and rail links and yet it's too reliant on state sponsored work. With 2 universities we should be striving forward as a city, but are held back by a significantly under educated work force. The challenge is to replace these jobs within the private sector, any ideas?
People in the public sector are better off providing services to their community, much more likely to be needed in difficult times while paying taxes rather than being paid benefits.
Of course the Tory led Government only cares about protecting the interests of high finance and big business, so the rest of us can just flounder while the out of touch rich sit untouched trying to ride out the storm.
Southampton was an Industary City, Milton Keynes is a paper town. theres a big difference between the to, so if your a pen pusher then MK is your better bet.
Add to that the fact that successive Labour councils for 30 years had no strategy, no planning and no idea!!! Whereas MK had a strategy, planning and the ability to deliver because the people who live there wanted it that way and were not daft enough to have Labour run the council!
Torchie1
says...
11:59am Tue 24 Jan 12
southy wrote:I'm sure that there are people just keeping their heads above water but a drive through any estate in the evening or at week-ends will expose an enormous number of new or nearly new cars and large flat screen TVs visible through windows.
Torchie1 wrote:He spot on Torchie, try getting to know people out here on the estates they dont have these things like these propagandist are trying to push forward things like Sky, plasma 50" tv, computors or the latest up to date mobile phone, to many are in debt and are only just keeping there head above water.
Linesman wrote:I often wonder why you bother but your posts are a constant source of amusement. Perhaps you should approach the TV company that produces "Grumpy Old Men".
Shoong wrote:If that is the best 'intelligent question' that you can muster, I really don't know why you bother.
Paramjit Bahia wrote:What kind of 'poor' are we on about here?
Why should poor public sector workers be made to pay the price for the greed based wrong decisions of super rich bosses and unfit for the purpose political class?
.
People responsible for creating economic crisis have not only been allowed to get away with their moral criminality many of them have even been given massive hand outs from the taxes paid by workers, whom now the thatcherite government is thinking of putting on the heap of unemployment
.
All these workers should unite and along with decent members of the community campaign to change this lousy right wing establishment.
Poor as in unable to provide food & shelter for the family or poor as in cannot afford Sky HD in 3D?
Linesman
says...
12:16pm Tue 24 Jan 12
Torchie1 wrote:An excellent suggestion. I wonder how it would fare in the ratings war, with you appearing on Loose Women.
Linesman wrote:I often wonder why you bother but your posts are a constant source of amusement. Perhaps you should approach the TV company that produces "Grumpy Old Men".
Shoong wrote:If that is the best 'intelligent question' that you can muster, I really don't know why you bother.
Paramjit Bahia wrote:What kind of 'poor' are we on about here?
Why should poor public sector workers be made to pay the price for the greed based wrong decisions of super rich bosses and unfit for the purpose political class?
.
People responsible for creating economic crisis have not only been allowed to get away with their moral criminality many of them have even been given massive hand outs from the taxes paid by workers, whom now the thatcherite government is thinking of putting on the heap of unemployment
.
All these workers should unite and along with decent members of the community campaign to change this lousy right wing establishment.
Poor as in unable to provide food & shelter for the family or poor as in cannot afford Sky HD in 3D?
Linesman
says...
12:20pm Tue 24 Jan 12
Torchie1 wrote:As you spend so much time on here, I am surprised that you have so much time for your other interest - cruising the neighbourhood and peeping through windows to see how many have large, flat screen TVs.
southy wrote:I'm sure that there are people just keeping their heads above water but a drive through any estate in the evening or at week-ends will expose an enormous number of new or nearly new cars and large flat screen TVs visible through windows.
Torchie1 wrote:He spot on Torchie, try getting to know people out here on the estates they dont have these things like these propagandist are trying to push forward things like Sky, plasma 50" tv, computors or the latest up to date mobile phone, to many are in debt and are only just keeping there head above water.
Linesman wrote:I often wonder why you bother but your posts are a constant source of amusement. Perhaps you should approach the TV company that produces "Grumpy Old Men".
Shoong wrote:If that is the best 'intelligent question' that you can muster, I really don't know why you bother.
Paramjit Bahia wrote:What kind of 'poor' are we on about here?
Why should poor public sector workers be made to pay the price for the greed based wrong decisions of super rich bosses and unfit for the purpose political class?
.
People responsible for creating economic crisis have not only been allowed to get away with their moral criminality many of them have even been given massive hand outs from the taxes paid by workers, whom now the thatcherite government is thinking of putting on the heap of unemployment
.
All these workers should unite and along with decent members of the community campaign to change this lousy right wing establishment.
Poor as in unable to provide food & shelter for the family or poor as in cannot afford Sky HD in 3D?
I suppose your name would not be Thomas.
southy
says...
1:00pm Tue 24 Jan 12
George4th wrote:No unions did not drive them away, it was your beloved Torys that push them out, just to try and make this city into another paper and tourist city, you know the lot that have no back bone to fight for what is right.
southy wrote:The Unions drove our industry away with continually being on strike - Southampton was FAMOUS for it!
Condor Man wrote:For your info Condor MK has more public services workers than Southampton and yet MK is a lot smaller.
Maine Lobster wrote:There should have been less reliance in the past on public sector jobs. So little was done in developing the city to compete with places like Milton Keynes. More emphasis should have been placed on wealth creation when we were wasting money on folly's like Eastpoint.
Condor Man wrote:The private sector has demonstrated over the last two years that it cannot deliver the jobs that the coalition's fantasy solution pinned its hopes on.
Listening to the radio this morning they were talking about Milton Keynes and it's place in the 'knowledge economy. Southampton isn't much further away from London than MK, has excellent road and rail links and yet it's too reliant on state sponsored work. With 2 universities we should be striving forward as a city, but are held back by a significantly under educated work force. The challenge is to replace these jobs within the private sector, any ideas?
People in the public sector are better off providing services to their community, much more likely to be needed in difficult times while paying taxes rather than being paid benefits.
Of course the Tory led Government only cares about protecting the interests of high finance and big business, so the rest of us can just flounder while the out of touch rich sit untouched trying to ride out the storm.
Southampton was an Industary City, Milton Keynes is a paper town. theres a big difference between the to, so if your a pen pusher then MK is your better bet.
Add to that the fact that successive Labour councils for 30 years had no strategy, no planning and no idea!!! Whereas MK had a strategy, planning and the ability to deliver because the people who live there wanted it that way and were not daft enough to have Labour run the council!
If you look at Southampton history of strikes for the size of the city theres been very few till after 1980. The reason being bosses use to sit down and talk and listen, now days they don't its there way and no other way, and that what Thatchers ideals caused
to happen.
Those in the private sector that don't have the back bone to fight for what is right and let the bosses walk all over you and treat you like paid slaves that is your look out, try growing a back bone
southy
says...
1:08pm Tue 24 Jan 12
Torchie1 wrote:Flat screens don't make them plasma tv do it, and there is not that many new cars in the estates apart from visitors stopping by, most cars on the estates are 6 year old or more, there hell a lot more cars that are 10 years old. I know I live on one.
southy wrote:I'm sure that there are people just keeping their heads above water but a drive through any estate in the evening or at week-ends will expose an enormous number of new or nearly new cars and large flat screen TVs visible through windows.
Torchie1 wrote:He spot on Torchie, try getting to know people out here on the estates they dont have these things like these propagandist are trying to push forward things like Sky, plasma 50" tv, computors or the latest up to date mobile phone, to many are in debt and are only just keeping there head above water.
Linesman wrote:I often wonder why you bother but your posts are a constant source of amusement. Perhaps you should approach the TV company that produces "Grumpy Old Men".
Shoong wrote:If that is the best 'intelligent question' that you can muster, I really don't know why you bother.
Paramjit Bahia wrote:What kind of 'poor' are we on about here?
Why should poor public sector workers be made to pay the price for the greed based wrong decisions of super rich bosses and unfit for the purpose political class?
.
People responsible for creating economic crisis have not only been allowed to get away with their moral criminality many of them have even been given massive hand outs from the taxes paid by workers, whom now the thatcherite government is thinking of putting on the heap of unemployment
.
All these workers should unite and along with decent members of the community campaign to change this lousy right wing establishment.
Poor as in unable to provide food & shelter for the family or poor as in cannot afford Sky HD in 3D?
Shoong
says...
1:24pm Tue 24 Jan 12
southy wrote:This is the problem, we've lost sight of what it is to be actually 'poor'.
Torchie1 wrote:Flat screens don't make them plasma tv do it, and there is not that many new cars in the estates apart from visitors stopping by, most cars on the estates are 6 year old or more, there hell a lot more cars that are 10 years old. I know I live on one.
southy wrote:I'm sure that there are people just keeping their heads above water but a drive through any estate in the evening or at week-ends will expose an enormous number of new or nearly new cars and large flat screen TVs visible through windows.
Torchie1 wrote:He spot on Torchie, try getting to know people out here on the estates they dont have these things like these propagandist are trying to push forward things like Sky, plasma 50" tv, computors or the latest up to date mobile phone, to many are in debt and are only just keeping there head above water.
Linesman wrote:I often wonder why you bother but your posts are a constant source of amusement. Perhaps you should approach the TV company that produces "Grumpy Old Men".
Shoong wrote:If that is the best 'intelligent question' that you can muster, I really don't know why you bother.
Paramjit Bahia wrote:What kind of 'poor' are we on about here?
Why should poor public sector workers be made to pay the price for the greed based wrong decisions of super rich bosses and unfit for the purpose political class?
.
People responsible for creating economic crisis have not only been allowed to get away with their moral criminality many of them have even been given massive hand outs from the taxes paid by workers, whom now the thatcherite government is thinking of putting on the heap of unemployment
.
All these workers should unite and along with decent members of the community campaign to change this lousy right wing establishment.
Poor as in unable to provide food & shelter for the family or poor as in cannot afford Sky HD in 3D?
An old school leftie friend of mine constantly whines about the 'govamont', complains that he is poor.
When I walk into his house I can see brand new carpets, he has 2 Xboxes, 1 42" lcd tv, a brand new kitchen & the council sends someone 'round every week to tend to his lawn because he can't be bothered. He won't get anything more than a part time job because 'there's nothing out there'.
He has never once struggled to feed his illegitimate children, has been walking around in a brand new Barbour jacket & there's me the mug sat down at the start of each month with a calculator working out what I can do for the month *to the pound* while I can't afford to switch the heating on for more than an hour a night.
He, like you, wouldn't know poor if it bit your behind & have lost total perspective.
Linesman
says...
1:25pm Tue 24 Jan 12
The only large take-up of employment in the private sector is the increase in the number of Big Issue sellers.
I suppose that Royston would claim that each one of them is 'a private business initiative.'
I suppose that Royston would claim that each one of them is 'a private business initiative.'
southy
says...
1:32pm Tue 24 Jan 12
Shoong wrote:More BS shoong just to try and prove a point.
southy wrote:This is the problem, we've lost sight of what it is to be actually 'poor'.
Torchie1 wrote:Flat screens don't make them plasma tv do it, and there is not that many new cars in the estates apart from visitors stopping by, most cars on the estates are 6 year old or more, there hell a lot more cars that are 10 years old. I know I live on one.
southy wrote:I'm sure that there are people just keeping their heads above water but a drive through any estate in the evening or at week-ends will expose an enormous number of new or nearly new cars and large flat screen TVs visible through windows.
Torchie1 wrote:He spot on Torchie, try getting to know people out here on the estates they dont have these things like these propagandist are trying to push forward things like Sky, plasma 50" tv, computors or the latest up to date mobile phone, to many are in debt and are only just keeping there head above water.
Linesman wrote:I often wonder why you bother but your posts are a constant source of amusement. Perhaps you should approach the TV company that produces "Grumpy Old Men".
Shoong wrote:If that is the best 'intelligent question' that you can muster, I really don't know why you bother.
Paramjit Bahia wrote:What kind of 'poor' are we on about here?
Why should poor public sector workers be made to pay the price for the greed based wrong decisions of super rich bosses and unfit for the purpose political class?
.
People responsible for creating economic crisis have not only been allowed to get away with their moral criminality many of them have even been given massive hand outs from the taxes paid by workers, whom now the thatcherite government is thinking of putting on the heap of unemployment
.
All these workers should unite and along with decent members of the community campaign to change this lousy right wing establishment.
Poor as in unable to provide food & shelter for the family or poor as in cannot afford Sky HD in 3D?
An old school leftie friend of mine constantly whines about the 'govamont', complains that he is poor.
When I walk into his house I can see brand new carpets, he has 2 Xboxes, 1 42" lcd tv, a brand new kitchen & the council sends someone 'round every week to tend to his lawn because he can't be bothered. He won't get anything more than a part time job because 'there's nothing out there'.
He has never once struggled to feed his illegitimate children, has been walking around in a brand new Barbour jacket & there's me the mug sat down at the start of each month with a calculator working out what I can do for the month *to the pound* while I can't afford to switch the heating on for more than an hour a night.
He, like you, wouldn't know poor if it bit your behind & have lost total perspective.
And I would know more about poor than you think I talk to them most days, and get invited in for a cuppa, I do see what they really got and its nothing like what your right wingers propaganda says
southy
says...
1:35pm Tue 24 Jan 12
Linesman wrote:~Yes I have noticed that there is a increase in numbers of those lot
The only large take-up of employment in the private sector is the increase in the number of Big Issue sellers.
I suppose that Royston would claim that each one of them is 'a private business initiative.'
Shoong
says...
1:37pm Tue 24 Jan 12
southy wrote:Seeing as your the King of BS & Propaganda, maybe I'll take that as a compliment.
Shoong wrote:More BS shoong just to try and prove a point.
southy wrote:This is the problem, we've lost sight of what it is to be actually 'poor'.
Torchie1 wrote:Flat screens don't make them plasma tv do it, and there is not that many new cars in the estates apart from visitors stopping by, most cars on the estates are 6 year old or more, there hell a lot more cars that are 10 years old. I know I live on one.
southy wrote:I'm sure that there are people just keeping their heads above water but a drive through any estate in the evening or at week-ends will expose an enormous number of new or nearly new cars and large flat screen TVs visible through windows.
Torchie1 wrote:He spot on Torchie, try getting to know people out here on the estates they dont have these things like these propagandist are trying to push forward things like Sky, plasma 50" tv, computors or the latest up to date mobile phone, to many are in debt and are only just keeping there head above water.
Linesman wrote:I often wonder why you bother but your posts are a constant source of amusement. Perhaps you should approach the TV company that produces "Grumpy Old Men".
Shoong wrote:If that is the best 'intelligent question' that you can muster, I really don't know why you bother.
Paramjit Bahia wrote:What kind of 'poor' are we on about here?
Why should poor public sector workers be made to pay the price for the greed based wrong decisions of super rich bosses and unfit for the purpose political class?
.
People responsible for creating economic crisis have not only been allowed to get away with their moral criminality many of them have even been given massive hand outs from the taxes paid by workers, whom now the thatcherite government is thinking of putting on the heap of unemployment
.
All these workers should unite and along with decent members of the community campaign to change this lousy right wing establishment.
Poor as in unable to provide food & shelter for the family or poor as in cannot afford Sky HD in 3D?
An old school leftie friend of mine constantly whines about the 'govamont', complains that he is poor.
When I walk into his house I can see brand new carpets, he has 2 Xboxes, 1 42" lcd tv, a brand new kitchen & the council sends someone 'round every week to tend to his lawn because he can't be bothered. He won't get anything more than a part time job because 'there's nothing out there'.
He has never once struggled to feed his illegitimate children, has been walking around in a brand new Barbour jacket & there's me the mug sat down at the start of each month with a calculator working out what I can do for the month *to the pound* while I can't afford to switch the heating on for more than an hour a night.
He, like you, wouldn't know poor if it bit your behind & have lost total perspective.
And I would know more about poor than you think I talk to them most days, and get invited in for a cuppa, I do see what they really got and its nothing like what your right wingers propaganda says
George4th
says...
2:31pm Tue 24 Jan 12
southy wrote:Southy, take off your rose coloured spectacles! Southampton was notorious for Striking! All the companies and organisations involved ceased to inwardly invest because of the militant labour forces in Southampton. Because of Southampton's reputation, there was no investment by new companies either! (The Docks being the biggest culprit!)
George4th wrote:No unions did not drive them away, it was your beloved Torys that push them out, just to try and make this city into another paper and tourist city, you know the lot that have no back bone to fight for what is right.
southy wrote:The Unions drove our industry away with continually being on strike - Southampton was FAMOUS for it!
Condor Man wrote:For your info Condor MK has more public services workers than Southampton and yet MK is a lot smaller.
Maine Lobster wrote:There should have been less reliance in the past on public sector jobs. So little was done in developing the city to compete with places like Milton Keynes. More emphasis should have been placed on wealth creation when we were wasting money on folly's like Eastpoint.
Condor Man wrote:The private sector has demonstrated over the last two years that it cannot deliver the jobs that the coalition's fantasy solution pinned its hopes on.
Listening to the radio this morning they were talking about Milton Keynes and it's place in the 'knowledge economy. Southampton isn't much further away from London than MK, has excellent road and rail links and yet it's too reliant on state sponsored work. With 2 universities we should be striving forward as a city, but are held back by a significantly under educated work force. The challenge is to replace these jobs within the private sector, any ideas?
People in the public sector are better off providing services to their community, much more likely to be needed in difficult times while paying taxes rather than being paid benefits.
Of course the Tory led Government only cares about protecting the interests of high finance and big business, so the rest of us can just flounder while the out of touch rich sit untouched trying to ride out the storm.
Southampton was an Industary City, Milton Keynes is a paper town. theres a big difference between the to, so if your a pen pusher then MK is your better bet.
Add to that the fact that successive Labour councils for 30 years had no strategy, no planning and no idea!!! Whereas MK had a strategy, planning and the ability to deliver because the people who live there wanted it that way and were not daft enough to have Labour run the council!
If you look at Southampton history of strikes for the size of the city theres been very few till after 1980. The reason being bosses use to sit down and talk and listen, now days they don't its there way and no other way, and that what Thatchers ideals caused
to happen.
Those in the private sector that don't have the back bone to fight for what is right and let the bosses walk all over you and treat you like paid slaves that is your look out, try growing a back bone
We had the classic situation of 3+ men doing 1 man's job! That is what the Unions defended! Is it any wonder that the companies went bust or re-located?!
George4th
says...
2:38pm Tue 24 Jan 12
southy wrote:Southy, every investigation into the so called "poor" reveals that they are not "poor" but have a misguided order of priorities. With our Welfare State, no one should be going without.
Shoong wrote:More BS shoong just to try and prove a point.
southy wrote:This is the problem, we've lost sight of what it is to be actually 'poor'.
Torchie1 wrote:Flat screens don't make them plasma tv do it, and there is not that many new cars in the estates apart from visitors stopping by, most cars on the estates are 6 year old or more, there hell a lot more cars that are 10 years old. I know I live on one.
southy wrote:I'm sure that there are people just keeping their heads above water but a drive through any estate in the evening or at week-ends will expose an enormous number of new or nearly new cars and large flat screen TVs visible through windows.
Torchie1 wrote:He spot on Torchie, try getting to know people out here on the estates they dont have these things like these propagandist are trying to push forward things like Sky, plasma 50" tv, computors or the latest up to date mobile phone, to many are in debt and are only just keeping there head above water.
Linesman wrote:I often wonder why you bother but your posts are a constant source of amusement. Perhaps you should approach the TV company that produces "Grumpy Old Men".
Shoong wrote:If that is the best 'intelligent question' that you can muster, I really don't know why you bother.
Paramjit Bahia wrote:What kind of 'poor' are we on about here?
Why should poor public sector workers be made to pay the price for the greed based wrong decisions of super rich bosses and unfit for the purpose political class?
.
People responsible for creating economic crisis have not only been allowed to get away with their moral criminality many of them have even been given massive hand outs from the taxes paid by workers, whom now the thatcherite government is thinking of putting on the heap of unemployment
.
All these workers should unite and along with decent members of the community campaign to change this lousy right wing establishment.
Poor as in unable to provide food & shelter for the family or poor as in cannot afford Sky HD in 3D?
An old school leftie friend of mine constantly whines about the 'govamont', complains that he is poor.
When I walk into his house I can see brand new carpets, he has 2 Xboxes, 1 42" lcd tv, a brand new kitchen & the council sends someone 'round every week to tend to his lawn because he can't be bothered. He won't get anything more than a part time job because 'there's nothing out there'.
He has never once struggled to feed his illegitimate children, has been walking around in a brand new Barbour jacket & there's me the mug sat down at the start of each month with a calculator working out what I can do for the month *to the pound* while I can't afford to switch the heating on for more than an hour a night.
He, like you, wouldn't know poor if it bit your behind & have lost total perspective.
And I would know more about poor than you think I talk to them most days, and get invited in for a cuppa, I do see what they really got and its nothing like what your right wingers propaganda says
>
And on another point, I know someone living in a council house whose total household income is well in excess of £100,000 - what is your view on that?
southy
says...
3:45pm Tue 24 Jan 12
George4th wrote:Thats because they are not invesgating the right people and they will not.
southy wrote:Southy, every investigation into the so called "poor" reveals that they are not "poor" but have a misguided order of priorities. With our Welfare State, no one should be going without.
Shoong wrote:More BS shoong just to try and prove a point.
southy wrote:This is the problem, we've lost sight of what it is to be actually 'poor'.
Torchie1 wrote:Flat screens don't make them plasma tv do it, and there is not that many new cars in the estates apart from visitors stopping by, most cars on the estates are 6 year old or more, there hell a lot more cars that are 10 years old. I know I live on one.
southy wrote:I'm sure that there are people just keeping their heads above water but a drive through any estate in the evening or at week-ends will expose an enormous number of new or nearly new cars and large flat screen TVs visible through windows.
Torchie1 wrote:He spot on Torchie, try getting to know people out here on the estates they dont have these things like these propagandist are trying to push forward things like Sky, plasma 50" tv, computors or the latest up to date mobile phone, to many are in debt and are only just keeping there head above water.
Linesman wrote:I often wonder why you bother but your posts are a constant source of amusement. Perhaps you should approach the TV company that produces "Grumpy Old Men".
Shoong wrote:If that is the best 'intelligent question' that you can muster, I really don't know why you bother.
Paramjit Bahia wrote:What kind of 'poor' are we on about here?
Why should poor public sector workers be made to pay the price for the greed based wrong decisions of super rich bosses and unfit for the purpose political class?
.
People responsible for creating economic crisis have not only been allowed to get away with their moral criminality many of them have even been given massive hand outs from the taxes paid by workers, whom now the thatcherite government is thinking of putting on the heap of unemployment
.
All these workers should unite and along with decent members of the community campaign to change this lousy right wing establishment.
Poor as in unable to provide food & shelter for the family or poor as in cannot afford Sky HD in 3D?
An old school leftie friend of mine constantly whines about the 'govamont', complains that he is poor.
When I walk into his house I can see brand new carpets, he has 2 Xboxes, 1 42" lcd tv, a brand new kitchen & the council sends someone 'round every week to tend to his lawn because he can't be bothered. He won't get anything more than a part time job because 'there's nothing out there'.
He has never once struggled to feed his illegitimate children, has been walking around in a brand new Barbour jacket & there's me the mug sat down at the start of each month with a calculator working out what I can do for the month *to the pound* while I can't afford to switch the heating on for more than an hour a night.
He, like you, wouldn't know poor if it bit your behind & have lost total perspective.
And I would know more about poor than you think I talk to them most days, and get invited in for a cuppa, I do see what they really got and its nothing like what your right wingers propaganda says
>
And on another point, I know someone living in a council house whose total household income is well in excess of £100,000 - what is your view on that?
only people like the NSPCA and Shelter will invesgate the right people and the ones that they done are showing povity is on the increase.
Its there choice if they want to live in a council house, they are paying rent to the council which in turn go's towards the council coffers and helps to run council services.
And if your pointing to who I think your pointing at "Crow" he do not live in a council house he lives in a private rented old Farm house, the estate owner is a lord, and he hold meeting at his place.
southy
says...
3:49pm Tue 24 Jan 12
George4th wrote:That is total BS and you know it, Southampton was known to be one of the quite places to strike untill the 1980's.
southy wrote:Southy, take off your rose coloured spectacles! Southampton was notorious for Striking! All the companies and organisations involved ceased to inwardly invest because of the militant labour forces in Southampton. Because of Southampton's reputation, there was no investment by new companies either! (The Docks being the biggest culprit!)
George4th wrote:No unions did not drive them away, it was your beloved Torys that push them out, just to try and make this city into another paper and tourist city, you know the lot that have no back bone to fight for what is right.
southy wrote:The Unions drove our industry away with continually being on strike - Southampton was FAMOUS for it!
Condor Man wrote:For your info Condor MK has more public services workers than Southampton and yet MK is a lot smaller.
Maine Lobster wrote:There should have been less reliance in the past on public sector jobs. So little was done in developing the city to compete with places like Milton Keynes. More emphasis should have been placed on wealth creation when we were wasting money on folly's like Eastpoint.
Condor Man wrote:The private sector has demonstrated over the last two years that it cannot deliver the jobs that the coalition's fantasy solution pinned its hopes on.
Listening to the radio this morning they were talking about Milton Keynes and it's place in the 'knowledge economy. Southampton isn't much further away from London than MK, has excellent road and rail links and yet it's too reliant on state sponsored work. With 2 universities we should be striving forward as a city, but are held back by a significantly under educated work force. The challenge is to replace these jobs within the private sector, any ideas?
People in the public sector are better off providing services to their community, much more likely to be needed in difficult times while paying taxes rather than being paid benefits.
Of course the Tory led Government only cares about protecting the interests of high finance and big business, so the rest of us can just flounder while the out of touch rich sit untouched trying to ride out the storm.
Southampton was an Industary City, Milton Keynes is a paper town. theres a big difference between the to, so if your a pen pusher then MK is your better bet.
Add to that the fact that successive Labour councils for 30 years had no strategy, no planning and no idea!!! Whereas MK had a strategy, planning and the ability to deliver because the people who live there wanted it that way and were not daft enough to have Labour run the council!
If you look at Southampton history of strikes for the size of the city theres been very few till after 1980. The reason being bosses use to sit down and talk and listen, now days they don't its there way and no other way, and that what Thatchers ideals caused
to happen.
Those in the private sector that don't have the back bone to fight for what is right and let the bosses walk all over you and treat you like paid slaves that is your look out, try growing a back bone
We had the classic situation of 3+ men doing 1 man's job! That is what the Unions defended! Is it any wonder that the companies went bust or re-located?!
The torys drove them out because that would mean it make it easier for them to have cheap under paid labour, for the Tourist trade.
Shoong
says...
3:53pm Tue 24 Jan 12
southy wrote:'Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.'
George4th wrote:That is total BS and you know it, Southampton was known to be one of the quite places to strike untill the 1980's.
southy wrote:Southy, take off your rose coloured spectacles! Southampton was notorious for Striking! All the companies and organisations involved ceased to inwardly invest because of the militant labour forces in Southampton. Because of Southampton's reputation, there was no investment by new companies either! (The Docks being the biggest culprit!)
George4th wrote:No unions did not drive them away, it was your beloved Torys that push them out, just to try and make this city into another paper and tourist city, you know the lot that have no back bone to fight for what is right.
southy wrote:The Unions drove our industry away with continually being on strike - Southampton was FAMOUS for it!
Condor Man wrote:For your info Condor MK has more public services workers than Southampton and yet MK is a lot smaller.
Maine Lobster wrote:There should have been less reliance in the past on public sector jobs. So little was done in developing the city to compete with places like Milton Keynes. More emphasis should have been placed on wealth creation when we were wasting money on folly's like Eastpoint.
Condor Man wrote:The private sector has demonstrated over the last two years that it cannot deliver the jobs that the coalition's fantasy solution pinned its hopes on.
Listening to the radio this morning they were talking about Milton Keynes and it's place in the 'knowledge economy. Southampton isn't much further away from London than MK, has excellent road and rail links and yet it's too reliant on state sponsored work. With 2 universities we should be striving forward as a city, but are held back by a significantly under educated work force. The challenge is to replace these jobs within the private sector, any ideas?
People in the public sector are better off providing services to their community, much more likely to be needed in difficult times while paying taxes rather than being paid benefits.
Of course the Tory led Government only cares about protecting the interests of high finance and big business, so the rest of us can just flounder while the out of touch rich sit untouched trying to ride out the storm.
Southampton was an Industary City, Milton Keynes is a paper town. theres a big difference between the to, so if your a pen pusher then MK is your better bet.
Add to that the fact that successive Labour councils for 30 years had no strategy, no planning and no idea!!! Whereas MK had a strategy, planning and the ability to deliver because the people who live there wanted it that way and were not daft enough to have Labour run the council!
If you look at Southampton history of strikes for the size of the city theres been very few till after 1980. The reason being bosses use to sit down and talk and listen, now days they don't its there way and no other way, and that what Thatchers ideals caused
to happen.
Those in the private sector that don't have the back bone to fight for what is right and let the bosses walk all over you and treat you like paid slaves that is your look out, try growing a back bone
We had the classic situation of 3+ men doing 1 man's job! That is what the Unions defended! Is it any wonder that the companies went bust or re-located?!
The torys drove them out because that would mean it make it easier for them to have cheap under paid labour, for the Tourist trade.
Winston Churchill
southy
says...
3:57pm Tue 24 Jan 12
There was never ever 3 men doing one job, some jobs you need to be a team and work as a team like riggers do, other jobs needed just tradesman and his mate. The ruling before the 80's was one man one job, meaning people kept with in there trade, this resulted in 10 times better quadity workmanship. it all so kept down unemployment, it better for them to work and earn a fair wage, so they could spend in the economy and kept it turn over, then it was to make them unemployed and not spending there money this will slump an economy and you have got to pay them benefits.
The problem was those at the top they wanted more for them selfs.
think about a lot longer than you are.
oh by the way I see the peace and quite in Spain never lasted long they are back out on the streets demo again with there newly elected Capitalist party.
The problem was those at the top they wanted more for them selfs.
think about a lot longer than you are.
oh by the way I see the peace and quite in Spain never lasted long they are back out on the streets demo again with there newly elected Capitalist party.
George4th
says...
4:27pm Tue 24 Jan 12
southy wrote:I have known someone who has investigated people's circumstances because of how badly the said people were stressed. It turns out to be financial mismanagement/poor housekeeping/wrong order of priorities - call it what you will.
George4th wrote:Thats because they are not invesgating the right people and they will not.
southy wrote:Southy, every investigation into the so called "poor" reveals that they are not "poor" but have a misguided order of priorities. With our Welfare State, no one should be going without.
Shoong wrote:More BS shoong just to try and prove a point.
southy wrote:This is the problem, we've lost sight of what it is to be actually 'poor'.
Torchie1 wrote:Flat screens don't make them plasma tv do it, and there is not that many new cars in the estates apart from visitors stopping by, most cars on the estates are 6 year old or more, there hell a lot more cars that are 10 years old. I know I live on one.
southy wrote:I'm sure that there are people just keeping their heads above water but a drive through any estate in the evening or at week-ends will expose an enormous number of new or nearly new cars and large flat screen TVs visible through windows.
Torchie1 wrote:He spot on Torchie, try getting to know people out here on the estates they dont have these things like these propagandist are trying to push forward things like Sky, plasma 50" tv, computors or the latest up to date mobile phone, to many are in debt and are only just keeping there head above water.
Linesman wrote:I often wonder why you bother but your posts are a constant source of amusement. Perhaps you should approach the TV company that produces "Grumpy Old Men".
Shoong wrote:If that is the best 'intelligent question' that you can muster, I really don't know why you bother.
Paramjit Bahia wrote:What kind of 'poor' are we on about here?
Why should poor public sector workers be made to pay the price for the greed based wrong decisions of super rich bosses and unfit for the purpose political class?
.
People responsible for creating economic crisis have not only been allowed to get away with their moral criminality many of them have even been given massive hand outs from the taxes paid by workers, whom now the thatcherite government is thinking of putting on the heap of unemployment
.
All these workers should unite and along with decent members of the community campaign to change this lousy right wing establishment.
Poor as in unable to provide food & shelter for the family or poor as in cannot afford Sky HD in 3D?
An old school leftie friend of mine constantly whines about the 'govamont', complains that he is poor.
When I walk into his house I can see brand new carpets, he has 2 Xboxes, 1 42" lcd tv, a brand new kitchen & the council sends someone 'round every week to tend to his lawn because he can't be bothered. He won't get anything more than a part time job because 'there's nothing out there'.
He has never once struggled to feed his illegitimate children, has been walking around in a brand new Barbour jacket & there's me the mug sat down at the start of each month with a calculator working out what I can do for the month *to the pound* while I can't afford to switch the heating on for more than an hour a night.
He, like you, wouldn't know poor if it bit your behind & have lost total perspective.
And I would know more about poor than you think I talk to them most days, and get invited in for a cuppa, I do see what they really got and its nothing like what your right wingers propaganda says
>
And on another point, I know someone living in a council house whose total household income is well in excess of £100,000 - what is your view on that?
only people like the NSPCA and Shelter will invesgate the right people and the ones that they done are showing povity is on the increase.
Its there choice if they want to live in a council house, they are paying rent to the council which in turn go's towards the council coffers and helps to run council services.
And if your pointing to who I think your pointing at "Crow" he do not live in a council house he lives in a private rented old Farm house, the estate owner is a lord, and he hold meeting at his place.
>
Your reply to why someone whose household income is in excess of £100,000 is outrageous!!!
.
>
People on here have said you make things up - now I believe them! Bob Crow lives in a housing association home aimed at low-income families! The guy spouts his views and yet his behaviour is a bad example to those who need housing!
George4th
says...
4:36pm Tue 24 Jan 12
southy wrote:Southy, you should have got out more - you clearly missed what was happening in Southampton! What I wrote was fact - seen with my own two eyes on a regular basis. That is why Southampton's industrial base went down the tubes - Union/Shop Steward ego tripping causing non-stop striking - if it wasn't one lot it was another.
There was never ever 3 men doing one job, some jobs you need to be a team and work as a team like riggers do, other jobs needed just tradesman and his mate. The ruling before the 80's was one man one job, meaning people kept with in there trade, this resulted in 10 times better quadity workmanship. it all so kept down unemployment, it better for them to work and earn a fair wage, so they could spend in the economy and kept it turn over, then it was to make them unemployed and not spending there money this will slump an economy and you have got to pay them benefits.
The problem was those at the top they wanted more for them selfs.
think about a lot longer than you are.
oh by the way I see the peace and quite in Spain never lasted long they are back out on the streets demo again with there newly elected Capitalist party.
Linesman
says...
5:14pm Tue 24 Jan 12
George4th wrote:The reason why Southampton's industrial base went down the tubes is because ABP preferred to have Yachties instead of Dockies.
southy wrote:Southy, you should have got out more - you clearly missed what was happening in Southampton! What I wrote was fact - seen with my own two eyes on a regular basis. That is why Southampton's industrial base went down the tubes - Union/Shop Steward ego tripping causing non-stop striking - if it wasn't one lot it was another.
There was never ever 3 men doing one job, some jobs you need to be a team and work as a team like riggers do, other jobs needed just tradesman and his mate. The ruling before the 80's was one man one job, meaning people kept with in there trade, this resulted in 10 times better quadity workmanship. it all so kept down unemployment, it better for them to work and earn a fair wage, so they could spend in the economy and kept it turn over, then it was to make them unemployed and not spending there money this will slump an economy and you have got to pay them benefits.
The problem was those at the top they wanted more for them selfs.
think about a lot longer than you are.
oh by the way I see the peace and quite in Spain never lasted long they are back out on the streets demo again with there newly elected Capitalist party.
Container ships do not provide the work that regular shipping used to provide, and the occasional visit from a cruise ship does not provide the same regular income that liners did.
Where there was once the Pirelli works, there is now a shopping precinct. That is not the fault of Unions, but the fault of city planners who wanted to attract people in to spend money, but did not give a toss about the provision of a wide range of industry so that locals had the cash to spend in the shops that were built.
George4th
says...
6:59pm Tue 24 Jan 12
Linesman wrote:OK, Let me put it another way. Ask the businesses who left Southampton and the businesses that didn't come to Southampton, WHY?!
George4th wrote:The reason why Southampton's industrial base went down the tubes is because ABP preferred to have Yachties instead of Dockies.
southy wrote:Southy, you should have got out more - you clearly missed what was happening in Southampton! What I wrote was fact - seen with my own two eyes on a regular basis. That is why Southampton's industrial base went down the tubes - Union/Shop Steward ego tripping causing non-stop striking - if it wasn't one lot it was another.
There was never ever 3 men doing one job, some jobs you need to be a team and work as a team like riggers do, other jobs needed just tradesman and his mate. The ruling before the 80's was one man one job, meaning people kept with in there trade, this resulted in 10 times better quadity workmanship. it all so kept down unemployment, it better for them to work and earn a fair wage, so they could spend in the economy and kept it turn over, then it was to make them unemployed and not spending there money this will slump an economy and you have got to pay them benefits.
The problem was those at the top they wanted more for them selfs.
think about a lot longer than you are.
oh by the way I see the peace and quite in Spain never lasted long they are back out on the streets demo again with there newly elected Capitalist party.
Container ships do not provide the work that regular shipping used to provide, and the occasional visit from a cruise ship does not provide the same regular income that liners did.
Where there was once the Pirelli works, there is now a shopping precinct. That is not the fault of Unions, but the fault of city planners who wanted to attract people in to spend money, but did not give a toss about the provision of a wide range of industry so that locals had the cash to spend in the shops that were built.
Linesman
says...
7:49pm Tue 24 Jan 12
George4th wrote:In my opinion, it is because of a NIMBY attitude by SCC.
Linesman wrote:OK, Let me put it another way. Ask the businesses who left Southampton and the businesses that didn't come to Southampton, WHY?!
George4th wrote:The reason why Southampton's industrial base went down the tubes is because ABP preferred to have Yachties instead of Dockies.
southy wrote:Southy, you should have got out more - you clearly missed what was happening in Southampton! What I wrote was fact - seen with my own two eyes on a regular basis. That is why Southampton's industrial base went down the tubes - Union/Shop Steward ego tripping causing non-stop striking - if it wasn't one lot it was another.
There was never ever 3 men doing one job, some jobs you need to be a team and work as a team like riggers do, other jobs needed just tradesman and his mate. The ruling before the 80's was one man one job, meaning people kept with in there trade, this resulted in 10 times better quadity workmanship. it all so kept down unemployment, it better for them to work and earn a fair wage, so they could spend in the economy and kept it turn over, then it was to make them unemployed and not spending there money this will slump an economy and you have got to pay them benefits.
The problem was those at the top they wanted more for them selfs.
think about a lot longer than you are.
oh by the way I see the peace and quite in Spain never lasted long they are back out on the streets demo again with there newly elected Capitalist party.
Container ships do not provide the work that regular shipping used to provide, and the occasional visit from a cruise ship does not provide the same regular income that liners did.
Where there was once the Pirelli works, there is now a shopping precinct. That is not the fault of Unions, but the fault of city planners who wanted to attract people in to spend money, but did not give a toss about the provision of a wide range of industry so that locals had the cash to spend in the shops that were built.
They wanted a Luxury city, not a Working class city.
Build the luxury hotel, and the build the new developments in the old docks to bring in the yachties with their money.
Build the West Quay site to bring in more money, not realising that if the money was spent there, Above Bar would turn into a ghost town.
Build a nice, new, multi-million pound museum to record the City's maritime heritage, and build it a mile from the docks - far from visitor attractions.
If you want a career as a shop worker, then Southampton is the place to go.
Hospitals and the Uni!
There are plenty of businesses that have come to the City, but they are all of the same sort.
The businesses that would provide a wider range or work opportunities have not arrived because the city's planners seem to have a one-track mind. I can think of nothing that they have done to attract any factories or light industries. That is why they have not come to Southampton.
Condor Man says...
4:59pm Mon 23 Jan 12