Striking teachers hold rally in Southampton's Guildhall Square

Hampshire Chronicle: Pete Sopowski addresses the crowd Pete Sopowski addresses the crowd

TEACHERS left their classrooms and gathered this morning in Southampton in a one day walk out over pay and conditions.

Almost 200 teachers staged a rally at Guildhall Square to protest at governments plans to change their spy structure, pension contributions and increasing workload.

The crowd heard from members of the National Union of Teachers who address the crowd underlining reasons for the strike.

As previously reported, some 20,000 pupils will not be at schools in Southampton and Hampshire today as a result of the industrial action.

Caroline Rand, from Richard Taunton college, came to the rally with husband Bernard and their dog Mutley.

She said:"It is the cuts that are made to sixth firm colleges impact it is having on students education that is the reason I am on strike today. I am sick of it."

Hampshire Chronicle:

Thornhill Primary School teachers

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2:25pm Wed 26 Mar 14

The Quantifier says...

Education is quickly becoming not only the plaything of politicians, but the militant trade unions like the NUT as well. As someone who goes to a sixth form, I see no evidence as to why these teachers deserve the pay they are getting when work is not marked, feedback is not given and our international competitiveness continues to fall off a cliff.

Why do teachers feel they have the moral right of higher pay in light of their increasingly diminished standards? Why do they feel they are allowed a day off in the name of defending further education, when there are Nurses, Doctors and those in the Private Sector who put in more effort but don't feel compelled to strike when they don't get things their way?

My Economics teacher is going to Barbados during the term break. Yet she is also taking part in the strike. I'm sorry, but when you have the luxury of going on holiday to a nice sunny place you can stomach higher pension contributions and performance-linked pay.

This is Britain's future at stake here, and I am absolutely sick of it being used as a football to achieve people's gains.
Education is quickly becoming not only the plaything of politicians, but the militant trade unions like the NUT as well. As someone who goes to a sixth form, I see no evidence as to why these teachers deserve the pay they are getting when work is not marked, feedback is not given and our international competitiveness continues to fall off a cliff. Why do teachers feel they have the moral right of higher pay in light of their increasingly diminished standards? Why do they feel they are allowed a day off in the name of defending further education, when there are Nurses, Doctors and those in the Private Sector who put in more effort but don't feel compelled to strike when they don't get things their way? My Economics teacher is going to Barbados during the term break. Yet she is also taking part in the strike. I'm sorry, but when you have the luxury of going on holiday to a nice sunny place you can stomach higher pension contributions and performance-linked pay. This is Britain's future at stake here, and I am absolutely sick of it being used as a football to achieve people's gains. The Quantifier
  • Score: 6

2:45pm Wed 26 Mar 14

BerryMan says...

The Quantifier wrote:
Education is quickly becoming not only the plaything of politicians, but the militant trade unions like the NUT as well. As someone who goes to a sixth form, I see no evidence as to why these teachers deserve the pay they are getting when work is not marked, feedback is not given and our international competitiveness continues to fall off a cliff.

Why do teachers feel they have the moral right of higher pay in light of their increasingly diminished standards? Why do they feel they are allowed a day off in the name of defending further education, when there are Nurses, Doctors and those in the Private Sector who put in more effort but don't feel compelled to strike when they don't get things their way?

My Economics teacher is going to Barbados during the term break. Yet she is also taking part in the strike. I'm sorry, but when you have the luxury of going on holiday to a nice sunny place you can stomach higher pension contributions and performance-linked pay.

This is Britain's future at stake here, and I am absolutely sick of it being used as a football to achieve people's gains.
As it states in the article, they are trying to object to their increased workload, which you have backed up by saying how your work is often not marked.
More people need to stand up and be counted as the government constantly lower the standards of all areas of our country through cuts, whilst managing to increase their own pay and pensions and give our countries our hard earned money freely to many other countries in less of a need than ours.
Is it any business of yours where your teacher goes on holiday? Do you know how much their partner earns or even how much they paid for the holiday?
They are helping Britain's future by trying to ensure standards are maintained not squeezed away. The government are bleeding every public sector dry. Look at the NHS and the wait for a docs appointment and even an ambulance!
Sometimes industrial action is the last way to get your message across.
Personally, i wish them luck.
[quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: Education is quickly becoming not only the plaything of politicians, but the militant trade unions like the NUT as well. As someone who goes to a sixth form, I see no evidence as to why these teachers deserve the pay they are getting when work is not marked, feedback is not given and our international competitiveness continues to fall off a cliff. Why do teachers feel they have the moral right of higher pay in light of their increasingly diminished standards? Why do they feel they are allowed a day off in the name of defending further education, when there are Nurses, Doctors and those in the Private Sector who put in more effort but don't feel compelled to strike when they don't get things their way? My Economics teacher is going to Barbados during the term break. Yet she is also taking part in the strike. I'm sorry, but when you have the luxury of going on holiday to a nice sunny place you can stomach higher pension contributions and performance-linked pay. This is Britain's future at stake here, and I am absolutely sick of it being used as a football to achieve people's gains.[/p][/quote]As it states in the article, they are trying to object to their increased workload, which you have backed up by saying how your work is often not marked. More people need to stand up and be counted as the government constantly lower the standards of all areas of our country through cuts, whilst managing to increase their own pay and pensions and give our countries our hard earned money freely to many other countries in less of a need than ours. Is it any business of yours where your teacher goes on holiday? Do you know how much their partner earns or even how much they paid for the holiday? They are helping Britain's future by trying to ensure standards are maintained not squeezed away. The government are bleeding every public sector dry. Look at the NHS and the wait for a docs appointment and even an ambulance! Sometimes industrial action is the last way to get your message across. Personally, i wish them luck. BerryMan
  • Score: -1

3:01pm Wed 26 Mar 14

The Quantifier says...

BerryMan wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Education is quickly becoming not only the plaything of politicians, but the militant trade unions like the NUT as well. As someone who goes to a sixth form, I see no evidence as to why these teachers deserve the pay they are getting when work is not marked, feedback is not given and our international competitiveness continues to fall off a cliff.

Why do teachers feel they have the moral right of higher pay in light of their increasingly diminished standards? Why do they feel they are allowed a day off in the name of defending further education, when there are Nurses, Doctors and those in the Private Sector who put in more effort but don't feel compelled to strike when they don't get things their way?

My Economics teacher is going to Barbados during the term break. Yet she is also taking part in the strike. I'm sorry, but when you have the luxury of going on holiday to a nice sunny place you can stomach higher pension contributions and performance-linked pay.

This is Britain's future at stake here, and I am absolutely sick of it being used as a football to achieve people's gains.
As it states in the article, they are trying to object to their increased workload, which you have backed up by saying how your work is often not marked.
More people need to stand up and be counted as the government constantly lower the standards of all areas of our country through cuts, whilst managing to increase their own pay and pensions and give our countries our hard earned money freely to many other countries in less of a need than ours.
Is it any business of yours where your teacher goes on holiday? Do you know how much their partner earns or even how much they paid for the holiday?
They are helping Britain's future by trying to ensure standards are maintained not squeezed away. The government are bleeding every public sector dry. Look at the NHS and the wait for a docs appointment and even an ambulance!
Sometimes industrial action is the last way to get your message across.
Personally, i wish them luck.
"As it states in the article, they are trying to object to their increased workload, which you have backed up by saying how your work is often not marked."

Holidays are exceptionally generous in duration (more than most careers) and whilst some of that time is indeed used to mark work, it is not the responsibility of this nation to pay for inefficient time management. If teachers have classes of 50+ to teach, I would sympathise, but when you have a very manageable 25-30 (and that's only for the biggest colleges) there is no excuse for complaining about workload whilst jetting off to a nice sandy beach.

"More people need to stand up and be counted as the government constantly lower the standards of all areas of our country through cuts, whilst managing to increase their own pay and pensions and give our countries our hard earned money freely to many other countries in less of a need than ours."

I agree that there are many countries where taxpayer's money is being funneled to unnecessarily, but equally that is no excuse for wanting the party to keep on going for longer. You would think after the recession that people would be more humbling with their spending, but evidently there is still a ridiculous notion that there is such thing as a free lunch.

"Is it any business of yours where your teacher goes on holiday? Do you know how much their partner earns or even how much they paid for the holiday?"

As I am devoting two years of my life putting my trust in teachers to provide the best education they give, YES, it is my business when they are failing to provide the service they came into the profession to give out of laziness. Do you even know how many people in the private sector don't have the luxury of going on holiday?

"They are helping Britain's future by trying to ensure standards are maintained not squeezed away. The government are bleeding every public sector dry. Look at the NHS and the wait for a docs appointment and even an ambulance!"

If you think our standards have been maintained when the times were good, take a look at the rapid decline of our PISA ranking before you think blowing more money into the system will do any good. When North Korea finished higher than Britain in the International Maths Olympiad, you know something is wrong with the system of paying teachers whatever they want.

"Sometimes industrial action is the last way to get your message across.
Personally, i wish them luck."

And fortunately many teachers recognise that not all means of communication have been exhausted and that it is pure recklessness to take a day off so close to exams.

Personally, I wish all of those on strike get the sack.
[quote][p][bold]BerryMan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: Education is quickly becoming not only the plaything of politicians, but the militant trade unions like the NUT as well. As someone who goes to a sixth form, I see no evidence as to why these teachers deserve the pay they are getting when work is not marked, feedback is not given and our international competitiveness continues to fall off a cliff. Why do teachers feel they have the moral right of higher pay in light of their increasingly diminished standards? Why do they feel they are allowed a day off in the name of defending further education, when there are Nurses, Doctors and those in the Private Sector who put in more effort but don't feel compelled to strike when they don't get things their way? My Economics teacher is going to Barbados during the term break. Yet she is also taking part in the strike. I'm sorry, but when you have the luxury of going on holiday to a nice sunny place you can stomach higher pension contributions and performance-linked pay. This is Britain's future at stake here, and I am absolutely sick of it being used as a football to achieve people's gains.[/p][/quote]As it states in the article, they are trying to object to their increased workload, which you have backed up by saying how your work is often not marked. More people need to stand up and be counted as the government constantly lower the standards of all areas of our country through cuts, whilst managing to increase their own pay and pensions and give our countries our hard earned money freely to many other countries in less of a need than ours. Is it any business of yours where your teacher goes on holiday? Do you know how much their partner earns or even how much they paid for the holiday? They are helping Britain's future by trying to ensure standards are maintained not squeezed away. The government are bleeding every public sector dry. Look at the NHS and the wait for a docs appointment and even an ambulance! Sometimes industrial action is the last way to get your message across. Personally, i wish them luck.[/p][/quote]"As it states in the article, they are trying to object to their increased workload, which you have backed up by saying how your work is often not marked." Holidays are exceptionally generous in duration (more than most careers) and whilst some of that time is indeed used to mark work, it is not the responsibility of this nation to pay for inefficient time management. If teachers have classes of 50+ to teach, I would sympathise, but when you have a very manageable 25-30 (and that's only for the biggest colleges) there is no excuse for complaining about workload whilst jetting off to a nice sandy beach. "More people need to stand up and be counted as the government constantly lower the standards of all areas of our country through cuts, whilst managing to increase their own pay and pensions and give our countries our hard earned money freely to many other countries in less of a need than ours." I agree that there are many countries where taxpayer's money is being funneled to unnecessarily, but equally that is no excuse for wanting the party to keep on going for longer. You would think after the recession that people would be more humbling with their spending, but evidently there is still a ridiculous notion that there is such thing as a free lunch. "Is it any business of yours where your teacher goes on holiday? Do you know how much their partner earns or even how much they paid for the holiday?" As I am devoting two years of my life putting my trust in teachers to provide the best education they give, YES, it is my business when they are failing to provide the service they came into the profession to give out of laziness. Do you even know how many people in the private sector don't have the luxury of going on holiday? "They are helping Britain's future by trying to ensure standards are maintained not squeezed away. The government are bleeding every public sector dry. Look at the NHS and the wait for a docs appointment and even an ambulance!" If you think our standards have been maintained when the times were good, take a look at the rapid decline of our PISA ranking before you think blowing more money into the system will do any good. When North Korea finished higher than Britain in the International Maths Olympiad, you know something is wrong with the system of paying teachers whatever they want. "Sometimes industrial action is the last way to get your message across. Personally, i wish them luck." And fortunately many teachers recognise that not all means of communication have been exhausted and that it is pure recklessness to take a day off so close to exams. Personally, I wish all of those on strike get the sack. The Quantifier
  • Score: 2

3:07pm Wed 26 Mar 14

Dai Rear says...

The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.
The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers. Dai Rear
  • Score: 3

3:55pm Wed 26 Mar 14

good-gosh says...

The undying reason for limiting public sector pay is the need to end the spiral of government spending in future – essential for the benefit of the next generations. I haven’t heard of one single NUT supporter acknowledge this fundamental aim and conclude that they couldn’t care less about the future - except of course their own.
The undying reason for limiting public sector pay is the need to end the spiral of government spending in future – essential for the benefit of the next generations. I haven’t heard of one single NUT supporter acknowledge this fundamental aim and conclude that they couldn’t care less about the future - except of course their own. good-gosh
  • Score: 7

4:02pm Wed 26 Mar 14

Lone Ranger. says...

Dai Rear wrote:
The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.
Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all.
.
But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world.
.
Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.
[quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.[/p][/quote]Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all. . But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world. . Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner. Lone Ranger.
  • Score: -1

4:32pm Wed 26 Mar 14

newsknight says...

good-gosh wrote:
The undying reason for limiting public sector pay is the need to end the spiral of government spending in future – essential for the benefit of the next generations. I haven’t heard of one single NUT supporter acknowledge this fundamental aim and conclude that they couldn’t care less about the future - except of course their own.
If this government and the next wish to "end the spiral of government spending in future" then they need to account for the burden migration is placing on all services, education, NHS, housing - the budget has not increased to cover the headcount, yet these services are supposed to manage! Language barrier alone is an issue as highlighted by a recent programme where a man taken ill on a bus could not communicate with the paramedic (and was reluctant to be taken to hospital). Now equate this to trying to teach individuals in the classroom whose first language is not english, alongside those who do speak english, the differential in trying to keep the whole class on track and learning well...think about it. Recognition of these facts and extra support for services is not forthcoming from government to ease the burden.....
[quote][p][bold]good-gosh[/bold] wrote: The undying reason for limiting public sector pay is the need to end the spiral of government spending in future – essential for the benefit of the next generations. I haven’t heard of one single NUT supporter acknowledge this fundamental aim and conclude that they couldn’t care less about the future - except of course their own.[/p][/quote]If this government and the next wish to "end the spiral of government spending in future" then they need to account for the burden migration is placing on all services, education, NHS, housing - the budget has not increased to cover the headcount, yet these services are supposed to manage! Language barrier alone is an issue as highlighted by a recent programme where a man taken ill on a bus could not communicate with the paramedic (and was reluctant to be taken to hospital). Now equate this to trying to teach individuals in the classroom whose first language is not english, alongside those who do speak english, the differential in trying to keep the whole class on track and learning well...think about it. Recognition of these facts and extra support for services is not forthcoming from government to ease the burden..... newsknight
  • Score: 2

4:35pm Wed 26 Mar 14

After8UK says...

People are living longer. Therefore they have to work longer. Simple as that.
People are living longer. Therefore they have to work longer. Simple as that. After8UK
  • Score: 3

4:57pm Wed 26 Mar 14

good-gosh says...

newsknight wrote:
good-gosh wrote:
The undying reason for limiting public sector pay is the need to end the spiral of government spending in future – essential for the benefit of the next generations. I haven’t heard of one single NUT supporter acknowledge this fundamental aim and conclude that they couldn’t care less about the future - except of course their own.
If this government and the next wish to "end the spiral of government spending in future" then they need to account for the burden migration is placing on all services, education, NHS, housing - the budget has not increased to cover the headcount, yet these services are supposed to manage! Language barrier alone is an issue as highlighted by a recent programme where a man taken ill on a bus could not communicate with the paramedic (and was reluctant to be taken to hospital). Now equate this to trying to teach individuals in the classroom whose first language is not english, alongside those who do speak english, the differential in trying to keep the whole class on track and learning well...think about it. Recognition of these facts and extra support for services is not forthcoming from government to ease the burden.....
Theres no IF about it – it's BEING done. And expansion of public sector services to cover immigration will all the easier with the leaner unit costs.
[quote][p][bold]newsknight[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]good-gosh[/bold] wrote: The undying reason for limiting public sector pay is the need to end the spiral of government spending in future – essential for the benefit of the next generations. I haven’t heard of one single NUT supporter acknowledge this fundamental aim and conclude that they couldn’t care less about the future - except of course their own.[/p][/quote]If this government and the next wish to "end the spiral of government spending in future" then they need to account for the burden migration is placing on all services, education, NHS, housing - the budget has not increased to cover the headcount, yet these services are supposed to manage! Language barrier alone is an issue as highlighted by a recent programme where a man taken ill on a bus could not communicate with the paramedic (and was reluctant to be taken to hospital). Now equate this to trying to teach individuals in the classroom whose first language is not english, alongside those who do speak english, the differential in trying to keep the whole class on track and learning well...think about it. Recognition of these facts and extra support for services is not forthcoming from government to ease the burden.....[/p][/quote]Theres no IF about it – it's BEING done. And expansion of public sector services to cover immigration will all the easier with the leaner unit costs. good-gosh
  • Score: 2

5:35pm Wed 26 Mar 14

The Quantifier says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.
Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all.
.
But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world.
.
Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.
Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike.

Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs.

Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get.

Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable.

Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.[/p][/quote]Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all. . But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world. . Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.[/p][/quote]Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike. Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs. Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get. Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable. Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over. The Quantifier
  • Score: 6

6:00pm Wed 26 Mar 14

Mavis Barlow says...

I'm against picketing, I just don't know how to show it.
I'm against picketing, I just don't know how to show it. Mavis Barlow
  • Score: 1

6:01pm Wed 26 Mar 14

Lone Ranger. says...

The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.
Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all.
.
But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world.
.
Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.
Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike.

Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs.

Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get.

Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable.

Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.
Oh its not just your generation thats getting screwed over ......... Why do you think that they are on strike ?
.
At least they are standing up for what they believe in .... Not many do that.
.
The millionaires get tax cuts ......... the workers get screwed
[quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.[/p][/quote]Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all. . But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world. . Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.[/p][/quote]Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike. Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs. Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get. Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable. Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.[/p][/quote]Oh its not just your generation thats getting screwed over ......... Why do you think that they are on strike ? . At least they are standing up for what they believe in .... Not many do that. . The millionaires get tax cuts ......... the workers get screwed Lone Ranger.
  • Score: -1

6:46pm Wed 26 Mar 14

The Quantifier says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.
Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all.
.
But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world.
.
Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.
Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike.

Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs.

Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get.

Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable.

Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.
Oh its not just your generation thats getting screwed over ......... Why do you think that they are on strike ?
.
At least they are standing up for what they believe in .... Not many do that.
.
The millionaires get tax cuts ......... the workers get screwed
Because they aren't willing to pay the same price every other worker has had to pay in recent years?

That's a terrible excuse for reckless behaviour. There are other ways to voice your beliefs that do not involve disruption for thousands of parents and the worsening education of their children.
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.[/p][/quote]Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all. . But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world. . Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.[/p][/quote]Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike. Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs. Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get. Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable. Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.[/p][/quote]Oh its not just your generation thats getting screwed over ......... Why do you think that they are on strike ? . At least they are standing up for what they believe in .... Not many do that. . The millionaires get tax cuts ......... the workers get screwed[/p][/quote]Because they aren't willing to pay the same price every other worker has had to pay in recent years? That's a terrible excuse for reckless behaviour. There are other ways to voice your beliefs that do not involve disruption for thousands of parents and the worsening education of their children. The Quantifier
  • Score: 3

6:53pm Wed 26 Mar 14

Dai Rear says...

Just watches the NUT demonstration on the TV. They have placards from the Socialist Workers' Party, essentially the BNP.
You couldn't make it up. Why would ANY professional even dream of joining the NUT?
Partner's great niece's school closed by just TWO NUT non-professionals, would like to be thought of as teachers but aren't, just ...oh I don't know. It makes me so angry.
Just watches the NUT demonstration on the TV. They have placards from the Socialist Workers' Party, essentially the BNP. You couldn't make it up. Why would ANY professional even dream of joining the NUT? Partner's great niece's school closed by just TWO NUT non-professionals, would like to be thought of as teachers but aren't, just ...oh I don't know. It makes me so angry. Dai Rear
  • Score: -1

7:22pm Wed 26 Mar 14

OSPREYSAINT says...

The Quantifier wrote:
BerryMan wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Education is quickly becoming not only the plaything of politicians, but the militant trade unions like the NUT as well. As someone who goes to a sixth form, I see no evidence as to why these teachers deserve the pay they are getting when work is not marked, feedback is not given and our international competitiveness continues to fall off a cliff.

Why do teachers feel they have the moral right of higher pay in light of their increasingly diminished standards? Why do they feel they are allowed a day off in the name of defending further education, when there are Nurses, Doctors and those in the Private Sector who put in more effort but don't feel compelled to strike when they don't get things their way?

My Economics teacher is going to Barbados during the term break. Yet she is also taking part in the strike. I'm sorry, but when you have the luxury of going on holiday to a nice sunny place you can stomach higher pension contributions and performance-linked pay.

This is Britain's future at stake here, and I am absolutely sick of it being used as a football to achieve people's gains.
As it states in the article, they are trying to object to their increased workload, which you have backed up by saying how your work is often not marked.
More people need to stand up and be counted as the government constantly lower the standards of all areas of our country through cuts, whilst managing to increase their own pay and pensions and give our countries our hard earned money freely to many other countries in less of a need than ours.
Is it any business of yours where your teacher goes on holiday? Do you know how much their partner earns or even how much they paid for the holiday?
They are helping Britain's future by trying to ensure standards are maintained not squeezed away. The government are bleeding every public sector dry. Look at the NHS and the wait for a docs appointment and even an ambulance!
Sometimes industrial action is the last way to get your message across.
Personally, i wish them luck.
"As it states in the article, they are trying to object to their increased workload, which you have backed up by saying how your work is often not marked."

Holidays are exceptionally generous in duration (more than most careers) and whilst some of that time is indeed used to mark work, it is not the responsibility of this nation to pay for inefficient time management. If teachers have classes of 50+ to teach, I would sympathise, but when you have a very manageable 25-30 (and that's only for the biggest colleges) there is no excuse for complaining about workload whilst jetting off to a nice sandy beach.

"More people need to stand up and be counted as the government constantly lower the standards of all areas of our country through cuts, whilst managing to increase their own pay and pensions and give our countries our hard earned money freely to many other countries in less of a need than ours."

I agree that there are many countries where taxpayer's money is being funneled to unnecessarily, but equally that is no excuse for wanting the party to keep on going for longer. You would think after the recession that people would be more humbling with their spending, but evidently there is still a ridiculous notion that there is such thing as a free lunch.

"Is it any business of yours where your teacher goes on holiday? Do you know how much their partner earns or even how much they paid for the holiday?"

As I am devoting two years of my life putting my trust in teachers to provide the best education they give, YES, it is my business when they are failing to provide the service they came into the profession to give out of laziness. Do you even know how many people in the private sector don't have the luxury of going on holiday?

"They are helping Britain's future by trying to ensure standards are maintained not squeezed away. The government are bleeding every public sector dry. Look at the NHS and the wait for a docs appointment and even an ambulance!"

If you think our standards have been maintained when the times were good, take a look at the rapid decline of our PISA ranking before you think blowing more money into the system will do any good. When North Korea finished higher than Britain in the International Maths Olympiad, you know something is wrong with the system of paying teachers whatever they want.

"Sometimes industrial action is the last way to get your message across.
Personally, i wish them luck."

And fortunately many teachers recognise that not all means of communication have been exhausted and that it is pure recklessness to take a day off so close to exams.

Personally, I wish all of those on strike get the sack.
With a bit of luck you will fail your qualifications because there are no teachers to educate you.
[quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BerryMan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: Education is quickly becoming not only the plaything of politicians, but the militant trade unions like the NUT as well. As someone who goes to a sixth form, I see no evidence as to why these teachers deserve the pay they are getting when work is not marked, feedback is not given and our international competitiveness continues to fall off a cliff. Why do teachers feel they have the moral right of higher pay in light of their increasingly diminished standards? Why do they feel they are allowed a day off in the name of defending further education, when there are Nurses, Doctors and those in the Private Sector who put in more effort but don't feel compelled to strike when they don't get things their way? My Economics teacher is going to Barbados during the term break. Yet she is also taking part in the strike. I'm sorry, but when you have the luxury of going on holiday to a nice sunny place you can stomach higher pension contributions and performance-linked pay. This is Britain's future at stake here, and I am absolutely sick of it being used as a football to achieve people's gains.[/p][/quote]As it states in the article, they are trying to object to their increased workload, which you have backed up by saying how your work is often not marked. More people need to stand up and be counted as the government constantly lower the standards of all areas of our country through cuts, whilst managing to increase their own pay and pensions and give our countries our hard earned money freely to many other countries in less of a need than ours. Is it any business of yours where your teacher goes on holiday? Do you know how much their partner earns or even how much they paid for the holiday? They are helping Britain's future by trying to ensure standards are maintained not squeezed away. The government are bleeding every public sector dry. Look at the NHS and the wait for a docs appointment and even an ambulance! Sometimes industrial action is the last way to get your message across. Personally, i wish them luck.[/p][/quote]"As it states in the article, they are trying to object to their increased workload, which you have backed up by saying how your work is often not marked." Holidays are exceptionally generous in duration (more than most careers) and whilst some of that time is indeed used to mark work, it is not the responsibility of this nation to pay for inefficient time management. If teachers have classes of 50+ to teach, I would sympathise, but when you have a very manageable 25-30 (and that's only for the biggest colleges) there is no excuse for complaining about workload whilst jetting off to a nice sandy beach. "More people need to stand up and be counted as the government constantly lower the standards of all areas of our country through cuts, whilst managing to increase their own pay and pensions and give our countries our hard earned money freely to many other countries in less of a need than ours." I agree that there are many countries where taxpayer's money is being funneled to unnecessarily, but equally that is no excuse for wanting the party to keep on going for longer. You would think after the recession that people would be more humbling with their spending, but evidently there is still a ridiculous notion that there is such thing as a free lunch. "Is it any business of yours where your teacher goes on holiday? Do you know how much their partner earns or even how much they paid for the holiday?" As I am devoting two years of my life putting my trust in teachers to provide the best education they give, YES, it is my business when they are failing to provide the service they came into the profession to give out of laziness. Do you even know how many people in the private sector don't have the luxury of going on holiday? "They are helping Britain's future by trying to ensure standards are maintained not squeezed away. The government are bleeding every public sector dry. Look at the NHS and the wait for a docs appointment and even an ambulance!" If you think our standards have been maintained when the times were good, take a look at the rapid decline of our PISA ranking before you think blowing more money into the system will do any good. When North Korea finished higher than Britain in the International Maths Olympiad, you know something is wrong with the system of paying teachers whatever they want. "Sometimes industrial action is the last way to get your message across. Personally, i wish them luck." And fortunately many teachers recognise that not all means of communication have been exhausted and that it is pure recklessness to take a day off so close to exams. Personally, I wish all of those on strike get the sack.[/p][/quote]With a bit of luck you will fail your qualifications because there are no teachers to educate you. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 1

7:23pm Wed 26 Mar 14

OSPREYSAINT says...

Dai Rear wrote:
Just watches the NUT demonstration on the TV. They have placards from the Socialist Workers' Party, essentially the BNP.
You couldn't make it up. Why would ANY professional even dream of joining the NUT?
Partner's great niece's school closed by just TWO NUT non-professionals, would like to be thought of as teachers but aren't, just ...oh I don't know. It makes me so angry.
Just watches? Education did you no favours did it?
[quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: Just watches the NUT demonstration on the TV. They have placards from the Socialist Workers' Party, essentially the BNP. You couldn't make it up. Why would ANY professional even dream of joining the NUT? Partner's great niece's school closed by just TWO NUT non-professionals, would like to be thought of as teachers but aren't, just ...oh I don't know. It makes me so angry.[/p][/quote]Just watches? Education did you no favours did it? OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: -2

7:30pm Wed 26 Mar 14

OSPREYSAINT says...

The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.
Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all.
.
But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world.
.
Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.
Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike.

Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs.

Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get.

Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable.

Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.
Oh its not just your generation thats getting screwed over ......... Why do you think that they are on strike ?
.
At least they are standing up for what they believe in .... Not many do that.
.
The millionaires get tax cuts ......... the workers get screwed
Because they aren't willing to pay the same price every other worker has had to pay in recent years?

That's a terrible excuse for reckless behaviour. There are other ways to voice your beliefs that do not involve disruption for thousands of parents and the worsening education of their children.
You make it sound like beginning of a mass insurrection, it is a peaceful protest to draw attention against something that they consider to be unjust, how is that reckless? The pupils will soon catch up, it won't cost them a lot in the long run, if both sides get it right, it will be to everyones benefit, no good just blaming one side, it takes two to tango.
[quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.[/p][/quote]Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all. . But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world. . Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.[/p][/quote]Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike. Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs. Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get. Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable. Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.[/p][/quote]Oh its not just your generation thats getting screwed over ......... Why do you think that they are on strike ? . At least they are standing up for what they believe in .... Not many do that. . The millionaires get tax cuts ......... the workers get screwed[/p][/quote]Because they aren't willing to pay the same price every other worker has had to pay in recent years? That's a terrible excuse for reckless behaviour. There are other ways to voice your beliefs that do not involve disruption for thousands of parents and the worsening education of their children.[/p][/quote]You make it sound like beginning of a mass insurrection, it is a peaceful protest to draw attention against something that they consider to be unjust, how is that reckless? The pupils will soon catch up, it won't cost them a lot in the long run, if both sides get it right, it will be to everyones benefit, no good just blaming one side, it takes two to tango. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

7:32pm Wed 26 Mar 14

OSPREYSAINT says...

Mavis Barlow wrote:
I'm against picketing, I just don't know how to show it.
You just did.
[quote][p][bold]Mavis Barlow[/bold] wrote: I'm against picketing, I just don't know how to show it.[/p][/quote]You just did. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

7:39pm Wed 26 Mar 14

Lone Ranger. says...

The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.
Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all.
.
But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world.
.
Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.
Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike.

Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs.

Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get.

Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable.

Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.
Oh its not just your generation thats getting screwed over ......... Why do you think that they are on strike ?
.
At least they are standing up for what they believe in .... Not many do that.
.
The millionaires get tax cuts ......... the workers get screwed
Because they aren't willing to pay the same price every other worker has had to pay in recent years?

That's a terrible excuse for reckless behaviour. There are other ways to voice your beliefs that do not involve disruption for thousands of parents and the worsening education of their children.
Yes you are correct .... there are other ways to put across your views.
.
However having tried on numerous occasions to strike (excuse the pun) up a dialogue with Gove who would not meet them. .....They decided to take the final option available to them .... Strike.
.
Thebehaviour is not wreckless ...... it is the blantant lack of respect from Gove etc thats wreckless and damaging
[quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.[/p][/quote]Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all. . But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world. . Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.[/p][/quote]Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike. Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs. Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get. Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable. Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.[/p][/quote]Oh its not just your generation thats getting screwed over ......... Why do you think that they are on strike ? . At least they are standing up for what they believe in .... Not many do that. . The millionaires get tax cuts ......... the workers get screwed[/p][/quote]Because they aren't willing to pay the same price every other worker has had to pay in recent years? That's a terrible excuse for reckless behaviour. There are other ways to voice your beliefs that do not involve disruption for thousands of parents and the worsening education of their children.[/p][/quote]Yes you are correct .... there are other ways to put across your views. . However having tried on numerous occasions to strike (excuse the pun) up a dialogue with Gove who would not meet them. .....They decided to take the final option available to them .... Strike. . Thebehaviour is not wreckless ...... it is the blantant lack of respect from Gove etc thats wreckless and damaging Lone Ranger.
  • Score: -1

8:02pm Wed 26 Mar 14

Dai Rear says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
Just watches the NUT demonstration on the TV. They have placards from the Socialist Workers' Party, essentially the BNP.
You couldn't make it up. Why would ANY professional even dream of joining the NUT?
Partner's great niece's school closed by just TWO NUT non-professionals, would like to be thought of as teachers but aren't, just ...oh I don't know. It makes me so angry.
Just watches? Education did you no favours did it?
No. I wrote it quickly and didn't check it properly and I wasn't educated in the State system. If you're an NUT member, congratulations on your ability to read.
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: Just watches the NUT demonstration on the TV. They have placards from the Socialist Workers' Party, essentially the BNP. You couldn't make it up. Why would ANY professional even dream of joining the NUT? Partner's great niece's school closed by just TWO NUT non-professionals, would like to be thought of as teachers but aren't, just ...oh I don't know. It makes me so angry.[/p][/quote]Just watches? Education did you no favours did it?[/p][/quote]No. I wrote it quickly and didn't check it properly and I wasn't educated in the State system. If you're an NUT member, congratulations on your ability to read. Dai Rear
  • Score: 3

8:13pm Wed 26 Mar 14

The Quantifier says...

OSPREYSAINT wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
BerryMan wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Education is quickly becoming not only the plaything of politicians, but the militant trade unions like the NUT as well. As someone who goes to a sixth form, I see no evidence as to why these teachers deserve the pay they are getting when work is not marked, feedback is not given and our international competitiveness continues to fall off a cliff.

Why do teachers feel they have the moral right of higher pay in light of their increasingly diminished standards? Why do they feel they are allowed a day off in the name of defending further education, when there are Nurses, Doctors and those in the Private Sector who put in more effort but don't feel compelled to strike when they don't get things their way?

My Economics teacher is going to Barbados during the term break. Yet she is also taking part in the strike. I'm sorry, but when you have the luxury of going on holiday to a nice sunny place you can stomach higher pension contributions and performance-linked pay.

This is Britain's future at stake here, and I am absolutely sick of it being used as a football to achieve people's gains.
As it states in the article, they are trying to object to their increased workload, which you have backed up by saying how your work is often not marked.
More people need to stand up and be counted as the government constantly lower the standards of all areas of our country through cuts, whilst managing to increase their own pay and pensions and give our countries our hard earned money freely to many other countries in less of a need than ours.
Is it any business of yours where your teacher goes on holiday? Do you know how much their partner earns or even how much they paid for the holiday?
They are helping Britain's future by trying to ensure standards are maintained not squeezed away. The government are bleeding every public sector dry. Look at the NHS and the wait for a docs appointment and even an ambulance!
Sometimes industrial action is the last way to get your message across.
Personally, i wish them luck.
"As it states in the article, they are trying to object to their increased workload, which you have backed up by saying how your work is often not marked."

Holidays are exceptionally generous in duration (more than most careers) and whilst some of that time is indeed used to mark work, it is not the responsibility of this nation to pay for inefficient time management. If teachers have classes of 50+ to teach, I would sympathise, but when you have a very manageable 25-30 (and that's only for the biggest colleges) there is no excuse for complaining about workload whilst jetting off to a nice sandy beach.

"More people need to stand up and be counted as the government constantly lower the standards of all areas of our country through cuts, whilst managing to increase their own pay and pensions and give our countries our hard earned money freely to many other countries in less of a need than ours."

I agree that there are many countries where taxpayer's money is being funneled to unnecessarily, but equally that is no excuse for wanting the party to keep on going for longer. You would think after the recession that people would be more humbling with their spending, but evidently there is still a ridiculous notion that there is such thing as a free lunch.

"Is it any business of yours where your teacher goes on holiday? Do you know how much their partner earns or even how much they paid for the holiday?"

As I am devoting two years of my life putting my trust in teachers to provide the best education they give, YES, it is my business when they are failing to provide the service they came into the profession to give out of laziness. Do you even know how many people in the private sector don't have the luxury of going on holiday?

"They are helping Britain's future by trying to ensure standards are maintained not squeezed away. The government are bleeding every public sector dry. Look at the NHS and the wait for a docs appointment and even an ambulance!"

If you think our standards have been maintained when the times were good, take a look at the rapid decline of our PISA ranking before you think blowing more money into the system will do any good. When North Korea finished higher than Britain in the International Maths Olympiad, you know something is wrong with the system of paying teachers whatever they want.

"Sometimes industrial action is the last way to get your message across.
Personally, i wish them luck."

And fortunately many teachers recognise that not all means of communication have been exhausted and that it is pure recklessness to take a day off so close to exams.

Personally, I wish all of those on strike get the sack.
With a bit of luck you will fail your qualifications because there are no teachers to educate you.
"With a bit of luck you will fail your qualifications because there are no teachers to educate you."

I have much respect for the teachers who don't go on strike and do their best for their classes, as they are the true teachers who entered the profession with a thought for the students rather than their holiday to Barbados. Zero respect is given to those who think only of their pay (which would actually increase if their performance was good) and rely on the state to provide them a future.

"You make it sound like beginning of a mass insurrection, it is a peaceful protest to draw attention against something that they consider to be unjust, how is that reckless? The pupils will soon catch up, it won't cost them a lot in the long run, if both sides get it right, it will be to everyones benefit, no good just blaming one side, it takes two to tango."

You missed the apostrophe with "everyone's" (seeing as you seem fond of pointing out everyone else's grammatical errors). Looks like education didn't do you many favours either, Donald. You might want to do a better job of fixing up both the railways and your proof-reading.

It is hardly a peaceful protest when it was done deliberately at a time when many students would be preparing for crucial exams. Why is it reckless? Because it's design is self-admittedly to cause as much disruption as possible. In other words, deliberately ruining everyone else's lives to make a political point.
[quote][p][bold]OSPREYSAINT[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BerryMan[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: Education is quickly becoming not only the plaything of politicians, but the militant trade unions like the NUT as well. As someone who goes to a sixth form, I see no evidence as to why these teachers deserve the pay they are getting when work is not marked, feedback is not given and our international competitiveness continues to fall off a cliff. Why do teachers feel they have the moral right of higher pay in light of their increasingly diminished standards? Why do they feel they are allowed a day off in the name of defending further education, when there are Nurses, Doctors and those in the Private Sector who put in more effort but don't feel compelled to strike when they don't get things their way? My Economics teacher is going to Barbados during the term break. Yet she is also taking part in the strike. I'm sorry, but when you have the luxury of going on holiday to a nice sunny place you can stomach higher pension contributions and performance-linked pay. This is Britain's future at stake here, and I am absolutely sick of it being used as a football to achieve people's gains.[/p][/quote]As it states in the article, they are trying to object to their increased workload, which you have backed up by saying how your work is often not marked. More people need to stand up and be counted as the government constantly lower the standards of all areas of our country through cuts, whilst managing to increase their own pay and pensions and give our countries our hard earned money freely to many other countries in less of a need than ours. Is it any business of yours where your teacher goes on holiday? Do you know how much their partner earns or even how much they paid for the holiday? They are helping Britain's future by trying to ensure standards are maintained not squeezed away. The government are bleeding every public sector dry. Look at the NHS and the wait for a docs appointment and even an ambulance! Sometimes industrial action is the last way to get your message across. Personally, i wish them luck.[/p][/quote]"As it states in the article, they are trying to object to their increased workload, which you have backed up by saying how your work is often not marked." Holidays are exceptionally generous in duration (more than most careers) and whilst some of that time is indeed used to mark work, it is not the responsibility of this nation to pay for inefficient time management. If teachers have classes of 50+ to teach, I would sympathise, but when you have a very manageable 25-30 (and that's only for the biggest colleges) there is no excuse for complaining about workload whilst jetting off to a nice sandy beach. "More people need to stand up and be counted as the government constantly lower the standards of all areas of our country through cuts, whilst managing to increase their own pay and pensions and give our countries our hard earned money freely to many other countries in less of a need than ours." I agree that there are many countries where taxpayer's money is being funneled to unnecessarily, but equally that is no excuse for wanting the party to keep on going for longer. You would think after the recession that people would be more humbling with their spending, but evidently there is still a ridiculous notion that there is such thing as a free lunch. "Is it any business of yours where your teacher goes on holiday? Do you know how much their partner earns or even how much they paid for the holiday?" As I am devoting two years of my life putting my trust in teachers to provide the best education they give, YES, it is my business when they are failing to provide the service they came into the profession to give out of laziness. Do you even know how many people in the private sector don't have the luxury of going on holiday? "They are helping Britain's future by trying to ensure standards are maintained not squeezed away. The government are bleeding every public sector dry. Look at the NHS and the wait for a docs appointment and even an ambulance!" If you think our standards have been maintained when the times were good, take a look at the rapid decline of our PISA ranking before you think blowing more money into the system will do any good. When North Korea finished higher than Britain in the International Maths Olympiad, you know something is wrong with the system of paying teachers whatever they want. "Sometimes industrial action is the last way to get your message across. Personally, i wish them luck." And fortunately many teachers recognise that not all means of communication have been exhausted and that it is pure recklessness to take a day off so close to exams. Personally, I wish all of those on strike get the sack.[/p][/quote]With a bit of luck you will fail your qualifications because there are no teachers to educate you.[/p][/quote]"With a bit of luck you will fail your qualifications because there are no teachers to educate you." I have much respect for the teachers who don't go on strike and do their best for their classes, as they are the true teachers who entered the profession with a thought for the students rather than their holiday to Barbados. Zero respect is given to those who think only of their pay (which would actually increase if their performance was good) and rely on the state to provide them a future. "You make it sound like beginning of a mass insurrection, it is a peaceful protest to draw attention against something that they consider to be unjust, how is that reckless? The pupils will soon catch up, it won't cost them a lot in the long run, if both sides get it right, it will be to everyones benefit, no good just blaming one side, it takes two to tango." You missed the apostrophe with "everyone's" (seeing as you seem fond of pointing out everyone else's grammatical errors). Looks like education didn't do you many favours either, Donald. You might want to do a better job of fixing up both the railways and your proof-reading. It is hardly a peaceful protest when it was done deliberately at a time when many students would be preparing for crucial exams. Why is it reckless? Because it's design is self-admittedly to cause as much disruption as possible. In other words, deliberately ruining everyone else's lives to make a political point. The Quantifier
  • Score: 4

8:19pm Wed 26 Mar 14

The Quantifier says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.
Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all.
.
But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world.
.
Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.
Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike.

Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs.

Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get.

Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable.

Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.
Oh its not just your generation thats getting screwed over ......... Why do you think that they are on strike ?
.
At least they are standing up for what they believe in .... Not many do that.
.
The millionaires get tax cuts ......... the workers get screwed
Because they aren't willing to pay the same price every other worker has had to pay in recent years?

That's a terrible excuse for reckless behaviour. There are other ways to voice your beliefs that do not involve disruption for thousands of parents and the worsening education of their children.
Yes you are correct .... there are other ways to put across your views.
.
However having tried on numerous occasions to strike (excuse the pun) up a dialogue with Gove who would not meet them. .....They decided to take the final option available to them .... Strike.
.
Thebehaviour is not wreckless ...... it is the blantant lack of respect from Gove etc thats wreckless and damaging
Holding a gun to someone's head is not an acceptable way of trying to get them to the table. There are other unions which represent teachers that are achieving their aims of getting Gove to discuss their propositions without the need of striking.
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.[/p][/quote]Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all. . But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world. . Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.[/p][/quote]Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike. Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs. Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get. Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable. Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.[/p][/quote]Oh its not just your generation thats getting screwed over ......... Why do you think that they are on strike ? . At least they are standing up for what they believe in .... Not many do that. . The millionaires get tax cuts ......... the workers get screwed[/p][/quote]Because they aren't willing to pay the same price every other worker has had to pay in recent years? That's a terrible excuse for reckless behaviour. There are other ways to voice your beliefs that do not involve disruption for thousands of parents and the worsening education of their children.[/p][/quote]Yes you are correct .... there are other ways to put across your views. . However having tried on numerous occasions to strike (excuse the pun) up a dialogue with Gove who would not meet them. .....They decided to take the final option available to them .... Strike. . Thebehaviour is not wreckless ...... it is the blantant lack of respect from Gove etc thats wreckless and damaging[/p][/quote]Holding a gun to someone's head is not an acceptable way of trying to get them to the table. There are other unions which represent teachers that are achieving their aims of getting Gove to discuss their propositions without the need of striking. The Quantifier
  • Score: 3

8:36pm Wed 26 Mar 14

newsknight says...

The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.
Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all.
.
But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world.
.
Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.
Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike.

Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs.

Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get.

Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable.

Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.
Oh its not just your generation thats getting screwed over ......... Why do you think that they are on strike ?
.
At least they are standing up for what they believe in .... Not many do that.
.
The millionaires get tax cuts ......... the workers get screwed
Because they aren't willing to pay the same price every other worker has had to pay in recent years?

That's a terrible excuse for reckless behaviour. There are other ways to voice your beliefs that do not involve disruption for thousands of parents and the worsening education of their children.
Yes you are correct .... there are other ways to put across your views.
.
However having tried on numerous occasions to strike (excuse the pun) up a dialogue with Gove who would not meet them. .....They decided to take the final option available to them .... Strike.
.
Thebehaviour is not wreckless ...... it is the blantant lack of respect from Gove etc thats wreckless and damaging
Holding a gun to someone's head is not an acceptable way of trying to get them to the table. There are other unions which represent teachers that are achieving their aims of getting Gove to discuss their propositions without the need of striking.
Gove has decided that putting unqualified teachers in charge of classes on a daily basis is acceptable - just how do you argue with that statement if he will not listen. Would you rather have qualified teachers or be taught by Gove's unqualified class minders as part of his cost cutting plan? You complain now, fact is the world is not perfect and neither are you or I, but because the teachers care they are digging their heels in and raising the profile of the facts regarding Gove's sheer stupidity - he is willing to throw away the education of this and future generations sadly .... to save a few quid!!
[quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.[/p][/quote]Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all. . But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world. . Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.[/p][/quote]Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike. Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs. Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get. Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable. Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.[/p][/quote]Oh its not just your generation thats getting screwed over ......... Why do you think that they are on strike ? . At least they are standing up for what they believe in .... Not many do that. . The millionaires get tax cuts ......... the workers get screwed[/p][/quote]Because they aren't willing to pay the same price every other worker has had to pay in recent years? That's a terrible excuse for reckless behaviour. There are other ways to voice your beliefs that do not involve disruption for thousands of parents and the worsening education of their children.[/p][/quote]Yes you are correct .... there are other ways to put across your views. . However having tried on numerous occasions to strike (excuse the pun) up a dialogue with Gove who would not meet them. .....They decided to take the final option available to them .... Strike. . Thebehaviour is not wreckless ...... it is the blantant lack of respect from Gove etc thats wreckless and damaging[/p][/quote]Holding a gun to someone's head is not an acceptable way of trying to get them to the table. There are other unions which represent teachers that are achieving their aims of getting Gove to discuss their propositions without the need of striking.[/p][/quote]Gove has decided that putting unqualified teachers in charge of classes on a daily basis is acceptable - just how do you argue with that statement if he will not listen. Would you rather have qualified teachers or be taught by Gove's unqualified class minders as part of his cost cutting plan? You complain now, fact is the world is not perfect and neither are you or I, but because the teachers care they are digging their heels in and raising the profile of the facts regarding Gove's sheer stupidity - he is willing to throw away the education of this and future generations sadly .... to save a few quid!! newsknight
  • Score: 1

9:00pm Wed 26 Mar 14

The Quantifier says...

newsknight wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.
Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all.
.
But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world.
.
Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.
Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike.

Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs.

Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get.

Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable.

Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.
Oh its not just your generation thats getting screwed over ......... Why do you think that they are on strike ?
.
At least they are standing up for what they believe in .... Not many do that.
.
The millionaires get tax cuts ......... the workers get screwed
Because they aren't willing to pay the same price every other worker has had to pay in recent years?

That's a terrible excuse for reckless behaviour. There are other ways to voice your beliefs that do not involve disruption for thousands of parents and the worsening education of their children.
Yes you are correct .... there are other ways to put across your views.
.
However having tried on numerous occasions to strike (excuse the pun) up a dialogue with Gove who would not meet them. .....They decided to take the final option available to them .... Strike.
.
Thebehaviour is not wreckless ...... it is the blantant lack of respect from Gove etc thats wreckless and damaging
Holding a gun to someone's head is not an acceptable way of trying to get them to the table. There are other unions which represent teachers that are achieving their aims of getting Gove to discuss their propositions without the need of striking.
Gove has decided that putting unqualified teachers in charge of classes on a daily basis is acceptable - just how do you argue with that statement if he will not listen. Would you rather have qualified teachers or be taught by Gove's unqualified class minders as part of his cost cutting plan? You complain now, fact is the world is not perfect and neither are you or I, but because the teachers care they are digging their heels in and raising the profile of the facts regarding Gove's sheer stupidity - he is willing to throw away the education of this and future generations sadly .... to save a few quid!!
That, I agree is unacceptable, but is that the reason why the teachers are striking? To repeat the article, they are doing so "to protest at governments plans to change their spy structure, pension contributions and increasing workload", nothing at all to do with their jobs being replaced by others.

Furthermore, it's from my experience that it's the childminders on strike, not the qualified individuals who actually want to make a difference.
[quote][p][bold]newsknight[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.[/p][/quote]Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all. . But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world. . Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.[/p][/quote]Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike. Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs. Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get. Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable. Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.[/p][/quote]Oh its not just your generation thats getting screwed over ......... Why do you think that they are on strike ? . At least they are standing up for what they believe in .... Not many do that. . The millionaires get tax cuts ......... the workers get screwed[/p][/quote]Because they aren't willing to pay the same price every other worker has had to pay in recent years? That's a terrible excuse for reckless behaviour. There are other ways to voice your beliefs that do not involve disruption for thousands of parents and the worsening education of their children.[/p][/quote]Yes you are correct .... there are other ways to put across your views. . However having tried on numerous occasions to strike (excuse the pun) up a dialogue with Gove who would not meet them. .....They decided to take the final option available to them .... Strike. . Thebehaviour is not wreckless ...... it is the blantant lack of respect from Gove etc thats wreckless and damaging[/p][/quote]Holding a gun to someone's head is not an acceptable way of trying to get them to the table. There are other unions which represent teachers that are achieving their aims of getting Gove to discuss their propositions without the need of striking.[/p][/quote]Gove has decided that putting unqualified teachers in charge of classes on a daily basis is acceptable - just how do you argue with that statement if he will not listen. Would you rather have qualified teachers or be taught by Gove's unqualified class minders as part of his cost cutting plan? You complain now, fact is the world is not perfect and neither are you or I, but because the teachers care they are digging their heels in and raising the profile of the facts regarding Gove's sheer stupidity - he is willing to throw away the education of this and future generations sadly .... to save a few quid!![/p][/quote]That, I agree is unacceptable, but is that the reason why the teachers are striking? To repeat the article, they are doing so "to protest at governments plans to change their spy structure, pension contributions and increasing workload", nothing at all to do with their jobs being replaced by others. Furthermore, it's from my experience that it's the childminders on strike, not the qualified individuals who actually want to make a difference. The Quantifier
  • Score: 2

9:15pm Wed 26 Mar 14

newsknight says...

The Quantifier wrote:
newsknight wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.
Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all.
.
But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world.
.
Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.
Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike.

Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs.

Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get.

Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable.

Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.
Oh its not just your generation thats getting screwed over ......... Why do you think that they are on strike ?
.
At least they are standing up for what they believe in .... Not many do that.
.
The millionaires get tax cuts ......... the workers get screwed
Because they aren't willing to pay the same price every other worker has had to pay in recent years?

That's a terrible excuse for reckless behaviour. There are other ways to voice your beliefs that do not involve disruption for thousands of parents and the worsening education of their children.
Yes you are correct .... there are other ways to put across your views.
.
However having tried on numerous occasions to strike (excuse the pun) up a dialogue with Gove who would not meet them. .....They decided to take the final option available to them .... Strike.
.
Thebehaviour is not wreckless ...... it is the blantant lack of respect from Gove etc thats wreckless and damaging
Holding a gun to someone's head is not an acceptable way of trying to get them to the table. There are other unions which represent teachers that are achieving their aims of getting Gove to discuss their propositions without the need of striking.
Gove has decided that putting unqualified teachers in charge of classes on a daily basis is acceptable - just how do you argue with that statement if he will not listen. Would you rather have qualified teachers or be taught by Gove's unqualified class minders as part of his cost cutting plan? You complain now, fact is the world is not perfect and neither are you or I, but because the teachers care they are digging their heels in and raising the profile of the facts regarding Gove's sheer stupidity - he is willing to throw away the education of this and future generations sadly .... to save a few quid!!
That, I agree is unacceptable, but is that the reason why the teachers are striking? To repeat the article, they are doing so "to protest at governments plans to change their spy structure, pension contributions and increasing workload", nothing at all to do with their jobs being replaced by others.

Furthermore, it's from my experience that it's the childminders on strike, not the qualified individuals who actually want to make a difference.
I have listened to multiple media and in fact teachers speaking on the radio (ie direct from the horses mouth if you will) I also know teachers and lecturers as well as professional 'private sector' workers who are concerned at the path upon which our education system has been launched - affecting the standard of emerging youngsters post-education who may or may not be suitable for employment within their companies, however, you speak from one opinion - your own. Try thinking outside the box you seat yourself within for a change.
[quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]newsknight[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.[/p][/quote]Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all. . But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world. . Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.[/p][/quote]Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike. Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs. Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get. Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable. Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.[/p][/quote]Oh its not just your generation thats getting screwed over ......... Why do you think that they are on strike ? . At least they are standing up for what they believe in .... Not many do that. . The millionaires get tax cuts ......... the workers get screwed[/p][/quote]Because they aren't willing to pay the same price every other worker has had to pay in recent years? That's a terrible excuse for reckless behaviour. There are other ways to voice your beliefs that do not involve disruption for thousands of parents and the worsening education of their children.[/p][/quote]Yes you are correct .... there are other ways to put across your views. . However having tried on numerous occasions to strike (excuse the pun) up a dialogue with Gove who would not meet them. .....They decided to take the final option available to them .... Strike. . Thebehaviour is not wreckless ...... it is the blantant lack of respect from Gove etc thats wreckless and damaging[/p][/quote]Holding a gun to someone's head is not an acceptable way of trying to get them to the table. There are other unions which represent teachers that are achieving their aims of getting Gove to discuss their propositions without the need of striking.[/p][/quote]Gove has decided that putting unqualified teachers in charge of classes on a daily basis is acceptable - just how do you argue with that statement if he will not listen. Would you rather have qualified teachers or be taught by Gove's unqualified class minders as part of his cost cutting plan? You complain now, fact is the world is not perfect and neither are you or I, but because the teachers care they are digging their heels in and raising the profile of the facts regarding Gove's sheer stupidity - he is willing to throw away the education of this and future generations sadly .... to save a few quid!![/p][/quote]That, I agree is unacceptable, but is that the reason why the teachers are striking? To repeat the article, they are doing so "to protest at governments plans to change their spy structure, pension contributions and increasing workload", nothing at all to do with their jobs being replaced by others. Furthermore, it's from my experience that it's the childminders on strike, not the qualified individuals who actually want to make a difference.[/p][/quote]I have listened to multiple media and in fact teachers speaking on the radio (ie direct from the horses mouth if you will) I also know teachers and lecturers as well as professional 'private sector' workers who are concerned at the path upon which our education system has been launched - affecting the standard of emerging youngsters post-education who may or may not be suitable for employment within their companies, however, you speak from one opinion - your own. Try thinking outside the box you seat yourself within for a change. newsknight
  • Score: 0

9:26pm Wed 26 Mar 14

The Quantifier says...

newsknight wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
newsknight wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.
Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all.
.
But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world.
.
Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.
Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike.

Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs.

Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get.

Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable.

Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.
Oh its not just your generation thats getting screwed over ......... Why do you think that they are on strike ?
.
At least they are standing up for what they believe in .... Not many do that.
.
The millionaires get tax cuts ......... the workers get screwed
Because they aren't willing to pay the same price every other worker has had to pay in recent years?

That's a terrible excuse for reckless behaviour. There are other ways to voice your beliefs that do not involve disruption for thousands of parents and the worsening education of their children.
Yes you are correct .... there are other ways to put across your views.
.
However having tried on numerous occasions to strike (excuse the pun) up a dialogue with Gove who would not meet them. .....They decided to take the final option available to them .... Strike.
.
Thebehaviour is not wreckless ...... it is the blantant lack of respect from Gove etc thats wreckless and damaging
Holding a gun to someone's head is not an acceptable way of trying to get them to the table. There are other unions which represent teachers that are achieving their aims of getting Gove to discuss their propositions without the need of striking.
Gove has decided that putting unqualified teachers in charge of classes on a daily basis is acceptable - just how do you argue with that statement if he will not listen. Would you rather have qualified teachers or be taught by Gove's unqualified class minders as part of his cost cutting plan? You complain now, fact is the world is not perfect and neither are you or I, but because the teachers care they are digging their heels in and raising the profile of the facts regarding Gove's sheer stupidity - he is willing to throw away the education of this and future generations sadly .... to save a few quid!!
That, I agree is unacceptable, but is that the reason why the teachers are striking? To repeat the article, they are doing so "to protest at governments plans to change their spy structure, pension contributions and increasing workload", nothing at all to do with their jobs being replaced by others.

Furthermore, it's from my experience that it's the childminders on strike, not the qualified individuals who actually want to make a difference.
I have listened to multiple media and in fact teachers speaking on the radio (ie direct from the horses mouth if you will) I also know teachers and lecturers as well as professional 'private sector' workers who are concerned at the path upon which our education system has been launched - affecting the standard of emerging youngsters post-education who may or may not be suitable for employment within their companies, however, you speak from one opinion - your own. Try thinking outside the box you seat yourself within for a change.
There is naturally the argument that it's the ones with the most to complain about who shout the the loudest (and admittedly it's something which applies to me) so I wouldn't take that to be any more reliable than what I've experienced.

The problem of course is that telling someone to think outside the box for a change is open to the same statement in reply. Naturally, there is bias in every argument, but as this exists, there is the obligation to defend your opinion rigorously. The fact is that the standard of education relative to the world has fallen and has been shown by many international benchmarks. This will not change if the education system itself does not change. If you call for someone else to be more open to other ideas, why are you yourself not ready to do the same?
[quote][p][bold]newsknight[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]newsknight[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.[/p][/quote]Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all. . But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world. . Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.[/p][/quote]Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike. Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs. Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get. Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable. Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.[/p][/quote]Oh its not just your generation thats getting screwed over ......... Why do you think that they are on strike ? . At least they are standing up for what they believe in .... Not many do that. . The millionaires get tax cuts ......... the workers get screwed[/p][/quote]Because they aren't willing to pay the same price every other worker has had to pay in recent years? That's a terrible excuse for reckless behaviour. There are other ways to voice your beliefs that do not involve disruption for thousands of parents and the worsening education of their children.[/p][/quote]Yes you are correct .... there are other ways to put across your views. . However having tried on numerous occasions to strike (excuse the pun) up a dialogue with Gove who would not meet them. .....They decided to take the final option available to them .... Strike. . Thebehaviour is not wreckless ...... it is the blantant lack of respect from Gove etc thats wreckless and damaging[/p][/quote]Holding a gun to someone's head is not an acceptable way of trying to get them to the table. There are other unions which represent teachers that are achieving their aims of getting Gove to discuss their propositions without the need of striking.[/p][/quote]Gove has decided that putting unqualified teachers in charge of classes on a daily basis is acceptable - just how do you argue with that statement if he will not listen. Would you rather have qualified teachers or be taught by Gove's unqualified class minders as part of his cost cutting plan? You complain now, fact is the world is not perfect and neither are you or I, but because the teachers care they are digging their heels in and raising the profile of the facts regarding Gove's sheer stupidity - he is willing to throw away the education of this and future generations sadly .... to save a few quid!![/p][/quote]That, I agree is unacceptable, but is that the reason why the teachers are striking? To repeat the article, they are doing so "to protest at governments plans to change their spy structure, pension contributions and increasing workload", nothing at all to do with their jobs being replaced by others. Furthermore, it's from my experience that it's the childminders on strike, not the qualified individuals who actually want to make a difference.[/p][/quote]I have listened to multiple media and in fact teachers speaking on the radio (ie direct from the horses mouth if you will) I also know teachers and lecturers as well as professional 'private sector' workers who are concerned at the path upon which our education system has been launched - affecting the standard of emerging youngsters post-education who may or may not be suitable for employment within their companies, however, you speak from one opinion - your own. Try thinking outside the box you seat yourself within for a change.[/p][/quote]There is naturally the argument that it's the ones with the most to complain about who shout the the loudest (and admittedly it's something which applies to me) so I wouldn't take that to be any more reliable than what I've experienced. The problem of course is that telling someone to think outside the box for a change is open to the same statement in reply. Naturally, there is bias in every argument, but as this exists, there is the obligation to defend your opinion rigorously. The fact is that the standard of education relative to the world has fallen and has been shown by many international benchmarks. This will not change if the education system itself does not change. If you call for someone else to be more open to other ideas, why are you yourself not ready to do the same? The Quantifier
  • Score: 1

10:10pm Wed 26 Mar 14

Dai Rear says...

newsknight wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.
Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all.
.
But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world.
.
Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.
Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike.

Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs.

Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get.

Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable.

Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.
Oh its not just your generation thats getting screwed over ......... Why do you think that they are on strike ?
.
At least they are standing up for what they believe in .... Not many do that.
.
The millionaires get tax cuts ......... the workers get screwed
Because they aren't willing to pay the same price every other worker has had to pay in recent years?

That's a terrible excuse for reckless behaviour. There are other ways to voice your beliefs that do not involve disruption for thousands of parents and the worsening education of their children.
Yes you are correct .... there are other ways to put across your views.
.
However having tried on numerous occasions to strike (excuse the pun) up a dialogue with Gove who would not meet them. .....They decided to take the final option available to them .... Strike.
.
Thebehaviour is not wreckless ...... it is the blantant lack of respect from Gove etc thats wreckless and damaging
Holding a gun to someone's head is not an acceptable way of trying to get them to the table. There are other unions which represent teachers that are achieving their aims of getting Gove to discuss their propositions without the need of striking.
Gove has decided that putting unqualified teachers in charge of classes on a daily basis is acceptable - just how do you argue with that statement if he will not listen. Would you rather have qualified teachers or be taught by Gove's unqualified class minders as part of his cost cutting plan? You complain now, fact is the world is not perfect and neither are you or I, but because the teachers care they are digging their heels in and raising the profile of the facts regarding Gove's sheer stupidity - he is willing to throw away the education of this and future generations sadly .... to save a few quid!!
How I regret having been to University in the 60's and being taught by "unqualified" (i.e. doesn't have a Teaching Certificate) professors like Marie Jahoda , Tibor Barna and David Daiches.
How I regret going to Public School and only being taught by those with Oxbridge Firsts-but no Teaching Certificate. Bet you've got a Teaching Certificate. Bet you're a whiz on "gender studies" and "equality studies". Oh , how I wish I'd had a good education from folks like you.
[quote][p][bold]newsknight[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.[/p][/quote]Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all. . But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world. . Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.[/p][/quote]Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike. Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs. Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get. Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable. Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.[/p][/quote]Oh its not just your generation thats getting screwed over ......... Why do you think that they are on strike ? . At least they are standing up for what they believe in .... Not many do that. . The millionaires get tax cuts ......... the workers get screwed[/p][/quote]Because they aren't willing to pay the same price every other worker has had to pay in recent years? That's a terrible excuse for reckless behaviour. There are other ways to voice your beliefs that do not involve disruption for thousands of parents and the worsening education of their children.[/p][/quote]Yes you are correct .... there are other ways to put across your views. . However having tried on numerous occasions to strike (excuse the pun) up a dialogue with Gove who would not meet them. .....They decided to take the final option available to them .... Strike. . Thebehaviour is not wreckless ...... it is the blantant lack of respect from Gove etc thats wreckless and damaging[/p][/quote]Holding a gun to someone's head is not an acceptable way of trying to get them to the table. There are other unions which represent teachers that are achieving their aims of getting Gove to discuss their propositions without the need of striking.[/p][/quote]Gove has decided that putting unqualified teachers in charge of classes on a daily basis is acceptable - just how do you argue with that statement if he will not listen. Would you rather have qualified teachers or be taught by Gove's unqualified class minders as part of his cost cutting plan? You complain now, fact is the world is not perfect and neither are you or I, but because the teachers care they are digging their heels in and raising the profile of the facts regarding Gove's sheer stupidity - he is willing to throw away the education of this and future generations sadly .... to save a few quid!![/p][/quote]How I regret having been to University in the 60's and being taught by "unqualified" (i.e. doesn't have a Teaching Certificate) professors like Marie Jahoda , Tibor Barna and David Daiches. How I regret going to Public School and only being taught by those with Oxbridge Firsts-but no Teaching Certificate. Bet you've got a Teaching Certificate. Bet you're a whiz on "gender studies" and "equality studies". Oh , how I wish I'd had a good education from folks like you. Dai Rear
  • Score: 5

7:51am Thu 27 Mar 14

Lone Ranger. says...

Dai Rear wrote:
newsknight wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
The Quantifier wrote:
Lone Ranger. wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.
Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all.
.
But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world.
.
Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.
Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike.

Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs.

Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get.

Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable.

Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.
Oh its not just your generation thats getting screwed over ......... Why do you think that they are on strike ?
.
At least they are standing up for what they believe in .... Not many do that.
.
The millionaires get tax cuts ......... the workers get screwed
Because they aren't willing to pay the same price every other worker has had to pay in recent years?

That's a terrible excuse for reckless behaviour. There are other ways to voice your beliefs that do not involve disruption for thousands of parents and the worsening education of their children.
Yes you are correct .... there are other ways to put across your views.
.
However having tried on numerous occasions to strike (excuse the pun) up a dialogue with Gove who would not meet them. .....They decided to take the final option available to them .... Strike.
.
Thebehaviour is not wreckless ...... it is the blantant lack of respect from Gove etc thats wreckless and damaging
Holding a gun to someone's head is not an acceptable way of trying to get them to the table. There are other unions which represent teachers that are achieving their aims of getting Gove to discuss their propositions without the need of striking.
Gove has decided that putting unqualified teachers in charge of classes on a daily basis is acceptable - just how do you argue with that statement if he will not listen. Would you rather have qualified teachers or be taught by Gove's unqualified class minders as part of his cost cutting plan? You complain now, fact is the world is not perfect and neither are you or I, but because the teachers care they are digging their heels in and raising the profile of the facts regarding Gove's sheer stupidity - he is willing to throw away the education of this and future generations sadly .... to save a few quid!!
How I regret having been to University in the 60's and being taught by "unqualified" (i.e. doesn't have a Teaching Certificate) professors like Marie Jahoda , Tibor Barna and David Daiches.
How I regret going to Public School and only being taught by those with Oxbridge Firsts-but no Teaching Certificate. Bet you've got a Teaching Certificate. Bet you're a whiz on "gender studies" and "equality studies". Oh , how I wish I'd had a good education from folks like you.
You mean to tell us that you have beeen educated !!!! ..... get away with you
[quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]newsknight[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Quantifier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.[/p][/quote]Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all. . But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world. . Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.[/p][/quote]Indeed I haven't and I do not deny that. But if you believe that only teachers have that burden, you are certainly wrong, yet more often than not it is the teachers who feel morally obligated to strike. Forgive me if I believe the average worker equally has those commitments you talk about, and yet understands that paying for their mortgage and providing more for their children's future involves hard work and not a day off shouting about in the city centre with a few signs. Forgive me for realising that teachers are already compensated for their work with an exceptional range of benefits that the average worker doesn't get. Forgive me for finding the disruption this protest brings to the thousands of families who must organise childcare and look after their children whilst their teachers go around parading like lunatics completely unacceptable. Everyone is finding the funding of their household hard, not just the teachers. Maybe I haven't experienced that yet, but I know when it comes to be my turn to do so, it will be easier with an internationally competitive education. Right now, this is not happening and it isn't out of lack of equipment, but sheer self-mindedness on the part of the people we are meant to learn from, so I do apologise for being infuriated at how my generation is getting screwed over.[/p][/quote]Oh its not just your generation thats getting screwed over ......... Why do you think that they are on strike ? . At least they are standing up for what they believe in .... Not many do that. . The millionaires get tax cuts ......... the workers get screwed[/p][/quote]Because they aren't willing to pay the same price every other worker has had to pay in recent years? That's a terrible excuse for reckless behaviour. There are other ways to voice your beliefs that do not involve disruption for thousands of parents and the worsening education of their children.[/p][/quote]Yes you are correct .... there are other ways to put across your views. . However having tried on numerous occasions to strike (excuse the pun) up a dialogue with Gove who would not meet them. .....They decided to take the final option available to them .... Strike. . Thebehaviour is not wreckless ...... it is the blantant lack of respect from Gove etc thats wreckless and damaging[/p][/quote]Holding a gun to someone's head is not an acceptable way of trying to get them to the table. There are other unions which represent teachers that are achieving their aims of getting Gove to discuss their propositions without the need of striking.[/p][/quote]Gove has decided that putting unqualified teachers in charge of classes on a daily basis is acceptable - just how do you argue with that statement if he will not listen. Would you rather have qualified teachers or be taught by Gove's unqualified class minders as part of his cost cutting plan? You complain now, fact is the world is not perfect and neither are you or I, but because the teachers care they are digging their heels in and raising the profile of the facts regarding Gove's sheer stupidity - he is willing to throw away the education of this and future generations sadly .... to save a few quid!![/p][/quote]How I regret having been to University in the 60's and being taught by "unqualified" (i.e. doesn't have a Teaching Certificate) professors like Marie Jahoda , Tibor Barna and David Daiches. How I regret going to Public School and only being taught by those with Oxbridge Firsts-but no Teaching Certificate. Bet you've got a Teaching Certificate. Bet you're a whiz on "gender studies" and "equality studies". Oh , how I wish I'd had a good education from folks like you.[/p][/quote]You mean to tell us that you have beeen educated !!!! ..... get away with you Lone Ranger.
  • Score: 0

10:59am Thu 27 Mar 14

notableedingheart says...

Lone Ranger. wrote:
Dai Rear wrote:
The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.
Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all.
.
But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world.
.
Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.
Agreed, Quantifier expresses his or her opinion from the basis of his or her very limited life experiences. In short like most teenagers they think they now it all but actually know very little - ignorance is bliss!!
We have to be cautious that this industrial issue does not get hijacked by the ignorant, the great unwashed and the jealous under-achievers in society. I respect Teachers enormously and wish that the private and pubic sectors was populated with such dedicated committed staff prepared to provide untold , unremunerated and obviously unrecognised hours way beyond their industrially agreed hours. To a limited extent teachers holidays acknowledge that contribution. However, for those who believe Teachers have vastly more holidays than the norm I suggest calculating the bank holidays, flexi-time, additional rostered days off and holidays available to many industries in both private and pubic sectors and note that the cumulated days off are similar or greater than Teachers. This does not take into account those industries that have 12 hour shifts or 4on40ff etc. that provide even more days off.
Back to Teachers employment package - it is modest at best when compared to the pay, conditions and packages available in other pubic sector and private sector industries. A teachers possess at least one degree and many possess 1 or 2 post graduate degrees - in the private sector particularly this level of tertiary achievement would attract a substantially better rate of remuneration and employment package.
I know just how much Teachers provide willingly despite the recent pubic sport of slamming them. Personally I would never consider a teaching career not just because of their modest, at best package, but why tolerate an increasing number of dysfunctional parents and students, a growing band of ignorant and jealous unwashed who seem intent on further damaging the education system, educational bosses who cannot support their own staff and a Government that seems incapable of understanding what it is like to receive a modest salary while attempting to pay a mortgage, raise ids etc.
We are fortunate that teachers are generally good caring people and are somewhat naïve who continue to turn up in the forlorn hope that they can make a difference.
Go for it Teachers, ignore the detractors - most talk out of their fundamental orifices - and strive to convince Cameron's mob that Education and Teachers require respect and resources.
[quote][p][bold]Lone Ranger.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Dai Rear[/bold] wrote: The Quantifier says it all. I well understand teachers feeling the need to have protection from the usual public sector job spite and the activities of anthropoids who, with assistance of the NHS, have succeeded in reproducing, but choosing to join the NUT for that protection, well... There may very well be a case to be made but it won't be made by that disreputable organisation whose annual conference must be an enormous embarrassment to all professional teachers.[/p][/quote]Yes you are right .... the Quantifier has said it all. . But apart from sitting in a classroom and complaining his worked isnt marked ......... he has experienced nothing about life or the real world. . Like bringing up a family, paying a mortgage, providing for the future, juggling the family outgoings ....... and being the breadwinner.[/p][/quote]Agreed, Quantifier expresses his or her opinion from the basis of his or her very limited life experiences. In short like most teenagers they think they now it all but actually know very little - ignorance is bliss!! We have to be cautious that this industrial issue does not get hijacked by the ignorant, the great unwashed and the jealous under-achievers in society. I respect Teachers enormously and wish that the private and pubic sectors was populated with such dedicated committed staff prepared to provide untold , unremunerated and obviously unrecognised hours way beyond their industrially agreed hours. To a limited extent teachers holidays acknowledge that contribution. However, for those who believe Teachers have vastly more holidays than the norm I suggest calculating the bank holidays, flexi-time, additional rostered days off and holidays available to many industries in both private and pubic sectors and note that the cumulated days off are similar or greater than Teachers. This does not take into account those industries that have 12 hour shifts or 4on40ff etc. that provide even more days off. Back to Teachers employment package - it is modest at best when compared to the pay, conditions and packages available in other pubic sector and private sector industries. A teachers possess at least one degree and many possess 1 or 2 post graduate degrees - in the private sector particularly this level of tertiary achievement would attract a substantially better rate of remuneration and employment package. I know just how much Teachers provide willingly despite the recent pubic sport of slamming them. Personally I would never consider a teaching career not just because of their modest, at best package, but why tolerate an increasing number of dysfunctional parents and students, a growing band of ignorant and jealous unwashed who seem intent on further damaging the education system, educational bosses who cannot support their own staff and a Government that seems incapable of understanding what it is like to receive a modest salary while attempting to pay a mortgage, raise ids etc. We are fortunate that teachers are generally good caring people and are somewhat naïve who continue to turn up in the forlorn hope that they can make a difference. Go for it Teachers, ignore the detractors - most talk out of their fundamental orifices - and strive to convince Cameron's mob that Education and Teachers require respect and resources. notableedingheart
  • Score: 1

11:11am Thu 27 Mar 14

Dai Rear says...

" teachers possess at least one degree and many possess 1 or 2 post graduate degrees "
In the 1960's it was perfectly possible to go to Teacher Training college with 5 "O"-levels, excluding maths. I don't know how long this pertained but am willing to bet that some of that cohort remains in the system-none the worse for it, I'm sure.
"convince Cameron's mob that Education and Teachers require respect and resources." Fair enough. You've nailed your colours to the mast, but the corollary has to be that 1997-2010 saw improvements. Are you sure you can sustain that?
" teachers possess at least one degree and many possess 1 or 2 post graduate degrees " In the 1960's it was perfectly possible to go to Teacher Training college with 5 "O"-levels, excluding maths. I don't know how long this pertained but am willing to bet that some of that cohort remains in the system-none the worse for it, I'm sure. "convince Cameron's mob that Education and Teachers require respect and resources." Fair enough. You've nailed your colours to the mast, but the corollary has to be that 1997-2010 saw improvements. Are you sure you can sustain that? Dai Rear
  • Score: 0

12:08pm Thu 27 Mar 14

OSPREYSAINT says...

Point made now get back to the table and sort it out.
Point made now get back to the table and sort it out. OSPREYSAINT
  • Score: 0

9:27pm Thu 27 Mar 14

The Quantifier says...

"Agreed, Quantifier expresses his or her opinion from the basis of his or her very limited life experiences. In short like most teenagers they think they now it all but actually know very little - ignorance is bliss!!"

I hope you see the sweet poetic irony of claiming someone who wants to go to college and get an internationally competitive education to be thinking they know it all. No, I don't claim to know it all, and it would be more courteous not to put words in my mouth.

"We have to be cautious that this industrial issue does not get hijacked by the ignorant, the great unwashed and the jealous under-achievers in society. I respect Teachers enormously and wish that the private and pubic sectors was populated with such dedicated committed staff prepared to provide untold , unremunerated and obviously unrecognised hours way beyond their industrially agreed hours."

And I equally respect teachers who actually put in the effort to improve their class, as I have already made clear before. It is very interesting to see your praise of teachers putting down every other profession who have hard workers in the process. I sincerely hope next time you're ill, the nurse who works tirelessly to improve the health of the nation without calling for a strike turns you away.

"Personally I would never consider a teaching career not just because of their modest, at best package, but why tolerate an increasing number of dysfunctional parents and students, a growing band of ignorant and jealous unwashed who seem intent on further damaging the education system"

And that's the problem. When a teacher's first thought is their pay package and not the education of students, they are not a good teacher. Once again, I do not claim that all teachers act in this manner, but I certainly believe the ones who are striking are.

The education system has already been damaged, and I am growing tired of highlighting the declining performance of the British education system on an international scale when you look through many of the benchmarks used to judge performance.

If you are tolerant of this system that puts inefficiency before discipline, I sincerely hope you have no children as they'll be facing a "cruel", meritocratic world that rewards only the best skilled and educated. Having parents that encourage the current status-quo will do them no favours.
"Agreed, Quantifier expresses his or her opinion from the basis of his or her very limited life experiences. In short like most teenagers they think they now it all but actually know very little - ignorance is bliss!!" I hope you see the sweet poetic irony of claiming someone who wants to go to college and get an internationally competitive education to be thinking they know it all. No, I don't claim to know it all, and it would be more courteous not to put words in my mouth. "We have to be cautious that this industrial issue does not get hijacked by the ignorant, the great unwashed and the jealous under-achievers in society. I respect Teachers enormously and wish that the private and pubic sectors was populated with such dedicated committed staff prepared to provide untold , unremunerated and obviously unrecognised hours way beyond their industrially agreed hours." And I equally respect teachers who actually put in the effort to improve their class, as I have already made clear before. It is very interesting to see your praise of teachers putting down every other profession who have hard workers in the process. I sincerely hope next time you're ill, the nurse who works tirelessly to improve the health of the nation without calling for a strike turns you away. "Personally I would never consider a teaching career not just because of their modest, at best package, but why tolerate an increasing number of dysfunctional parents and students, a growing band of ignorant and jealous unwashed who seem intent on further damaging the education system" And that's the problem. When a teacher's first thought is their pay package and not the education of students, they are not a good teacher. Once again, I do not claim that all teachers act in this manner, but I certainly believe the ones who are striking are. The education system has already been damaged, and I am growing tired of highlighting the declining performance of the British education system on an international scale when you look through many of the benchmarks used to judge performance. If you are tolerant of this system that puts inefficiency before discipline, I sincerely hope you have no children as they'll be facing a "cruel", meritocratic world that rewards only the best skilled and educated. Having parents that encourage the current status-quo will do them no favours. The Quantifier
  • Score: 0

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